k-hawinkler Posted March 7, 2013 Author Share #21 Posted March 7, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi Mark, Thank you so much. This is exactly the kind of information I had in mind when starting this thread. Thanks again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 7, 2013 Posted March 7, 2013 Hi k-hawinkler, Take a look here M Rangefinder vs EVF Focus Accuracy?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Michael Geschlecht Posted March 8, 2013 Share #22 Posted March 8, 2013 Hello Everybody, This Thread is interesting. Partly because when its equivalents were being written back in the 1960's & the 1970's the same questions were being asked & the same answers were being given. Back then this Thread would have been called "Reflex Or Rangefinder: Which One Is Better?" Maybe that is why Leitz built a Leicaflex to compliment their M's. Looking at Leitz's & other sources's articles from that time period can help a person to better realize what is possible today. Best Regards, Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamey Posted March 8, 2013 Share #23 Posted March 8, 2013 Thanks for your input Mark. I have cancelled my order for the M, might wait for the full EVF version hoping Leica will make something Similar to the FUJI- XE-1 to use my R lenses as I don't need the rangefinder focusing. In the mean time It's back to good old Canon DSLR. Ken. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted March 9, 2013 Share #24 Posted March 9, 2013 I agree with Mark...... plus ..... if your rangefinder is off at least you can at least focus accurately with focus peaking..... mine back focusses by about 2cm at 1m which is enough to cause problems .... the EVF at least guarantees you are 100% ok. peaking doesn't work in low contrast situations, particularly when combined with older low contrast optics..... fog + telyt 400/5 yesterday was useless, but I could focus accurately with x5 or x10 magnification, although as Chris says ..... handholding at x10 with a 400mm lens makes you a bit seasick as everything is wobbling about alarmingly...... I'll report back again if we ever see sun in the UK again.... the clarity and resolution is excellent .... although the review image differs markedly from the LCD review and it is preferable to use that (see Marks other post). it's a very handy addition and I can see me using it a lot ..... particularly in low light situations as the images are so bright and clear. I really complements the Rangefinder very well and makes thge M a much more useful and desirable camera. from the point of view of speed ..... getting used to finding the mag button is the main issue ........ but with some practice I feel using the peaking in the EVF would be no slower than the manual rangefinder ..... and in fact the image is sufficiently good to focus unmagnified in most situations if you had to..... it really is very bright and clear ...... better than the Fuji X100. Having it as a bolt-on in my book is an advantage, not a disadvantage. at the end of the day, even if the image quailty of the M was the same as the M9, it would be worth it just for the extra scope that gadgets like these add to what you can photograph. I had kept my Nikon D700 and an old D300 and some lenses as back-ups for things I cant do with a Leica ...... but in reality they have sat in the safe unused for 2 years ..... and now I feel I can finally dump the lot without any nagging doubts ..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithlaban.co.uk Posted March 9, 2013 Share #25 Posted March 9, 2013 It's a pity magnified liveview is only available on the central part of the image. That said, can anyone give me an indication of the size of the magnified image at say 5x and 10x in relation to the whole frame. Thanks in advance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted March 9, 2013 Share #26 Posted March 9, 2013 What you see is the central area of a 5 or 10 times magnified image, not a rangefinder-like patch containing a section of magnified image. Therefore, if you select 5x, you are seeing the central 20% of the image and as thighslapper says, the image tends to bounce around because camera shake is magnified by the same amount. I can understand the expectation that you should be able to pan around the image but in reality, it's easier to turn the camera, focus and recompose, just like you'd do with the rangefinder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithlaban.co.uk Posted March 9, 2013 Share #27 Posted March 9, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) What you see is the central area of a 5 or 10 times magnified image, not a rangefinder-like patch containing a section of magnified image. Therefore, if you select 5x, you are seeing the central 20% of the image and as thighslapper says, the image tends to bounce around because camera shake is magnified by the same amount. I can understand the expectation that you should be able to pan around the image but in reality, it's easier to turn the camera, focus and recompose, just like you'd do with the rangefinder. Mark, many thanks. Yes, I understand that what you see is just a section of magnified image. Do you find 5x is enough to achieve *critical* focus? The camera will spend much of its time welded to a tripod. Focus recompose would be a pain and is inherently inaccurate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted March 9, 2013 Share #28 Posted March 9, 2013 Yes, the 5X seems to be enough for standard lenses and longer with 10X being good for wideangles but will always depend on the size of what you are focussing on. I've been practicing just using the magnification without focus peaking, years of rangefinder use and auto-focus on SLRs has made me a bit lazy so it's good to re-learn to evaluate focus yourself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted March 10, 2013 Share #29 Posted March 10, 2013 oh ..... and its a boon for discrete 'street' shots ......... on a short neck strap with the finder turned vertically you can see enough with it on your chest to compose a picture and snap....... and even with you eye to it it looks like you are fiddling with the controls rather than taking a picture...... combined with the quiet shutter I can see this being very useful..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted March 10, 2013 Share #30 Posted March 10, 2013 oh ..... and its a boon for discrete 'street' shots ......... on a short neck strap with the finder turned vertically you can see enough with it on your chest to compose a picture and snap....... and even with you eye to it it looks like you are fiddling with the controls rather than taking a picture...... combined with the quiet shutter I can see this being very useful..... Surely a lot easier to be less sneaky and just put the camera to your eye and take the photograph? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted March 10, 2013 Share #31 Posted March 10, 2013 Remember those ridiculous 90-degree attachments advertised in the last century? Point your camera in one direction, take a photo at right angles! Nobody will ever suspect! I watched a guy trying to use one in a market in Granada in the early 90's. He attracted quite a crowd... Technique trumps technology. Jerky or serruptitious movement and "suspicious" behaviour attracts attention. Regards, Bill Sent from another Galaxy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted March 10, 2013 Share #32 Posted March 10, 2013 Surely a lot easier to be less sneaky and just put the camera to your eye and take the photograph? errrr ..... yes ..... and that's what I always do....... not the slightest bit interested in street photograpy or working for the gutter press.... just an observation ..... thats all Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaques Posted March 10, 2013 Share #33 Posted March 10, 2013 Remember those ridiculous 90-degree attachments advertised in the last century? Point your camera in one direction, take a photo at right angles! Nobody will ever suspect! I watched a guy trying to use one in a market in Granada in the early 90's. He attracted quite a crowd... Technique trumps technology. Jerky or serruptitious movement and "suspicious" behaviour attracts attention. well you may have been somewhat surprised if you saw the pictures that guy in Granada took... Paul Strand used a camera like that to make some famous masterworks- don't knock it if you haven't tried it: Curiosity & The Blind Photographer | a blind flaneur Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted March 10, 2013 Share #34 Posted March 10, 2013 I haven't tried sheep-bothering either but I don't need to, to know it is wrong on so many levels... Regards, Bill Sent from another Galaxy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted March 10, 2013 Share #35 Posted March 10, 2013 I haven't tried sheep-bothering either but I don't need to, to know it is wrong on so many levels... Regards, Bill Sent from another Galaxy Who's been telling you about my candestine trips to Wales ????? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirekti Posted March 15, 2013 Share #36 Posted March 15, 2013 I'm not sure, but I believe I didn't see it mentioned anywhere. Can one see focus confirmation in a display mode? In a sence to have the same marks like in focus peaking, but available for confirmation while review-ing the photo on the display. If not, could this be available with the updated firmware? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted March 15, 2013 Share #37 Posted March 15, 2013 I'm not sure, but I believe I didn't see it mentioned anywhere. Can one see focus confirmation in a display mode? In a sence to have the same marks like in focus peaking, but available for confirmation while review-ing the photo on the display. If not, could this be available with the updated firmware? No .... and I'm not sure what the point would be either.... The LCD resolution is more than good enough to assess focus.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted March 15, 2013 Share #38 Posted March 15, 2013 Surely a lot easier to be less sneaky and just put the camera to your eye and take the photograph? Let's not forget the waist level medium format) tlrs (or SLRs). Ive used my Rolleiflex a lot for street travel and people found it more unassuming and yes I used it surreptitiously on many occasions. I don't believe In being sneaky but sometimes good to be unseen and unheard at least until the shot has been made. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirekti Posted March 15, 2013 Share #39 Posted March 15, 2013 No .... and I'm not sure what the point would be either.... The LCD resolution is more than good enough to assess focus.... Well, I'm not sure how it works with LCD as I don't have M yet. Do you have to zoom in to check it? If so, I believe it would be easier just to check the photo and see red marks or blinkies on spots that are in focus. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vidio1111 Posted July 9, 2013 Share #40 Posted July 9, 2013 Since I got the M240 I have been using the EVF a lot, having the intuitive feel that I would get more focused shots. So I decided to test the theory (and to some degree the lens and RF). This is completely non scientific and I don't know if it really is of any value but it was fun to do to test my preconceived notions. I set up a tripod and aimed at various stationary objects both close, mid and far with various lenses. In all cases I shot the lens wide open. I took the same shot using first the RF and then EVF. I used the 1.4 magnifier for the 50mm and up. Here are the results I found: 21 Summilux: 2 shots no difference, 2 shots very slight edge to EVF 35 Summilux: 5 shots no difference 50 Noctilux: 2 shots no difference, 1 shot EVF, 1 shot RF 90 Summicron: 1 shot no difference, 2 shots slight edge to EVF 135 Telyt: 2 shots no difference, 1 EVF So overall I think using the EVF was not as huge an advantage as I thought, even in controlled situations with stationary subjects. And in actual use with moving subjects I imagine the RF would fare even better. I think i am going to try and wean myself of the feeling that I have to always check the EVF. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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