rramesh Posted January 30, 2013 Share #181 Posted January 30, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Before making a decision on whether to consider a M240, I would like to see some Leica officially endorsed images, a product that is shipping and some independent reviews. This is a very speculative and controversial thread. Also if I have some money to spend, I would spend it on lenses. Leica has some of the best in the market, at the peak of perfection and which hold its value and likely to even appreciate over time. With regard to digital bodies, I think they will still go through more iterations and refinement of the next few years and will most certainly not hold their value. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 Hi rramesh, Take a look here First M240 RAW files released.. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
StephenPatterson Posted January 30, 2013 Share #182 Posted January 30, 2013 With regard to digital bodies, I think they will still go through more iterations and refinement of the next few years and will most certainly not hold their value. Just like my car, my computer, my mobile phone...cost of doing business. For me going back to film is not an option (outside of recreation), and I have not, at least yet, found a suitable digital body for my M lenses other than my M9. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted January 30, 2013 Share #183 Posted January 30, 2013 What is all this "gentlemen's agreement" stuff anyway? For what it’s worth, there have been several times that I was given a camera with the understanding that I wouldn’t publish photographs without the vendor’s consent, without having to sign an NDA. Sometimes I had to, but generally you don’t need to get me to pledge my firstborn, just so that I honour an agreement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rona!d Posted January 30, 2013 Share #184 Posted January 30, 2013 For what it’s worth, there have been several times that I was given a camera with the understanding that I wouldn’t publish photographs without the vendor’s consent, without having to sign an NDA. Sometimes I had to, but generally you don’t need to get me to pledge my firstborn, just so that I honour an agreement. Same with me and no complaints so far. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted January 30, 2013 Share #185 Posted January 30, 2013 Same with me and no complaints so far. Same here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenPatterson Posted January 30, 2013 Share #186 Posted January 30, 2013 For what it’s worth, there have been several times that I was given a camera with the understanding that I wouldn’t publish photographs without the vendor’s consent, without having to sign an NDA. Sometimes I had to, but generally you don’t need to get me to pledge my firstborn, just so that I honour an agreement. Obviously it didn't work so well in this case. I know that Leica enjoys trying to emulate Apple (at least where product names are concerned) but perhaps they should take a page from their cousins in Cupertino concerning who receives prototypes and the required paper trail. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest malland Posted January 30, 2013 Share #187 Posted January 30, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Rank (sort descending) posts in this thread by length. Then pair the most verbose with the same individual's examples of post-processing and determine for yourself whether the individual has one iota of visual sense. My take is that he is so proud of being able to use his choice of software that he considers himself qualified to criticize the new M DNG. He is not! Just because one can use the software has nothing relevant to competence. I swear some people can ruin their own wet dream.Pico, as your post was directly after my post #157, I quickly skimmed through the preceding pages and saw that my post was the longest one, so I must assume that you are referring to me. Alan Weinschel wrote the following in response to you: First, how do you sort a thread by post length? I can't seem to do it so I really don't know who this is directed at. Second, why such vitriol? It is just a camera, and not one released yet. Not good for you to get so exercised.Alan is right, your post is vicious and offensive. I have no idea what software you're referring to that I am supposed to be proud of, nor do I know why you're attacking me on whether I have an "iota of visual sense". But if you want to critique my photography you're welcome to do so, although critique is based on making a rational case and on civil discourse, not on indirect, cowardly attacks. I have no idea what problem you have with me and, although I recognize the name "Pico", I cannot recall anything that you've written, so your posts must not be that interesting. No matter, but I don't think vitriolic personal attacks such as yours have a place here. —Mitch/Chiang Mai Lanka Footsteps [M-Monochrom/Sri Lanka] Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rramesh Posted January 30, 2013 Share #188 Posted January 30, 2013 This forum is simply amazing. Members discuss at great length a new product before it is announced. And then discuss at length the product before it ships. And finally after it ships, yet another discussion as to why this will not buy it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted January 30, 2013 Share #189 Posted January 30, 2013 The best is that first the thread starts attacking the photographer that posted the pictures, then the camera, then the other forum members. That's what happens when we get bored waiting for a new camera. As far as Raw developers go, I use Lightroom almost exclusively now, simply because of the ease of organizing and editing in one program. Since the M uses DNG, I would hope that they play well with LR and that the colors will be optimized in a good profile for LR. I have a Phase One back that I use Capture One for, then a Sigma DP2 Merrill that needs Sigma Photo Pro, and all of it is so annoying that I just don't want to deal with it anymore. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted January 30, 2013 Share #190 Posted January 30, 2013 Hey Mitch, You flatter me! Anyway, I'm sure Leica has the camera in the hands of much better photographers than I (they better or they have truly "lost the plot"). I'm not shooting too much at the moment so I probably wouldn't be the best beta tester as it is. BTW, the Istanbul photos were all shot with the M8 - just goes to show how great and groundbreaking even that flawed camera was, and it still continues to make great photos in the hands of many thousands, just as the M9 will continue to do so. I think as far as camera sensor technology goes we are entering into the land of diminishing returns. What appeals most to me with the 240 is the hardware - it's really what the M9 should have been. And the Monochrom. Okay, more later, gotta run. CP Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WPalank Posted January 30, 2013 Share #191 Posted January 30, 2013 Why not? Our yachting Professor is presumably an old friend of Dr Kaufmann. I heard from someone within the inner sanctum weeks ago that this is exactly the case. Whether NDAs were involved, written or oral, was not discussed between the two of us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted January 30, 2013 Share #192 Posted January 30, 2013 What's improbable? I think it's highly improbable that, assuming a long standing personal friendship between Dr Rohde and Dr Kaufmann, that the latter would make the former sign an NDA (or that the former would feel obliged to do so). Let's not forget that Dr Kaufmann isn't answerable to shareholders or anyone else. Leica is his personal fiefdom and if he wants to let a friend have a prototype M, that's his prerogative.Either way, I don't really know what the big deal is – nobody is cancelling their pre-order in the light of the professor's 'NDA-busting' photos finding their way onto the internet. That's true : one who preorders has DECIDED to buy... those leaked unofficial DNGs aren't worth anything... and I add that if one (like me) does not preorder but prefers to WAIT AND SEE, those leaked pics do not account BUT the same applies to the "official" pictures that Leica can release soon : alas, should I take MY decision on the basis of pictures taken, processed and chosen with care by the manufacturer ? I do know from now that they will be excellent images, obviously... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barjohn Posted January 30, 2013 Share #193 Posted January 30, 2013 I think the battles raging here make no sense. The camera seems to produce good pictures. I prefer to see the mundane everyday photos as it better illustrates what the camera is capable of producing rather than what an excellent phtogrpaher can produce with heavy post processing and expert skill. That is why I prefer test shots like Lloyd Chambers, Sean Reid and Steve Huff use to judge cameras. While these shots appear to be underexposed and have already had some PP applied they do illustrate what the camera will do when in less than expert hands. I think the dissapointment here is that some people think the camera has to produce better images than any other camera to justify the expense and exclusivity. The CMOS vs CCD myth is another example of a bias that would probably not stand up to any type of double blind testing whether in print or on a monitor. Color rendition out of camera is really a preference as to which is better or more pleasing as long as they all are reasonably close to what we mentally percieve to be good color. Hand-ringing aside, if you prefer MF with a RF this will be a great camera and if you are agnostic toward those key aspects it will be a flawed camera. Whether the images will be any better or worse than a Nikon D800E or a Canon 5D MK III or an RX1 for that matter will depend more on the skill of the photographer in capturing the image and in PP. All of these cameras can produce fabulous images in the right hands. The only caveat I see may be in low light noise and we don't have much to go on yet for evaluating that aspect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeonblack Posted January 31, 2013 Share #194 Posted January 31, 2013 Hand-ringing aside, if you prefer MF with a RF this will be a great camera and if you are agnostic toward those key aspects it will be a flawed camera. Whether the images will be any better or worse than a Nikon D800E or a Canon 5D MK III or an RX1 for that matter will depend more on the skill of the photographer in capturing the image and in PP. All of these cameras can produce fabulous images in the right hands. The only caveat I see may be in low light noise and we don't have much to go on yet for evaluating that aspect. Agreed on your whole post, but the low light/high ISO noise is what concerns me the most. Once I have an idea of how it performs there, I'll know whether I would rather buy a used M9-P or a new M. People can gripe about all the little things Leica missteps on, but the one issue people have that is valid across the board is their low-light performance. If they have sorted that out, then sign me up! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
-ph- Posted January 31, 2013 Share #195 Posted January 31, 2013 Agreed on your whole post, but the low light/high ISO noise is what concerns me the most. Once I have an idea of how it performs there, I'll know whether I would rather buy a used M9-P or a new M. People can gripe about all the little things Leica missteps on, but the one issue people have that is valid across the board is their low-light performance. If they have sorted that out, then sign me up! I saw M images at ISO 6400, its massively better than the M9 at high ISO.... Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
perceptivelight Posted January 31, 2013 Share #196 Posted January 31, 2013 Well it's the 31 of January and Leica did promise that it would have 'Official image samples' released by the end of January. I believe that was said by Stefan Daniel on the 13/1/13, who could for get that date Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbuckley Posted January 31, 2013 Share #197 Posted January 31, 2013 My bet is on Ming Thein tomorrow morning, US time. In the now deleted email from a "senior Leica executive," he said later this week. Tomorrow is Friday, and February 1. Show time, I'd say. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbuckley Posted January 31, 2013 Share #198 Posted January 31, 2013 Of course, the next day is Groundhog Day, so we may be doing this all over again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted January 31, 2013 Share #199 Posted January 31, 2013 I saw M images at ISO 6400, its massively better than the M9 at high ISO....Peter Well it would have to be since the M9 doesn't go to 6400. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted January 31, 2013 Share #200 Posted January 31, 2013 Well it would have to be since the M9 doesn't go to 6400. To be pedantic, he didn't say the M9 was set to ISO 6400, he said "at high ISO" which I took to mean the top of its ISO range. If the M240 is at 6400 is still better than the M9 at 2500, that's a result to look forward to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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