plasticman Posted December 21, 2012 Share #101 Posted December 21, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) I thought it was necessary when you and the rest of the usual Leica trolls show up to bash the camera and people before you even know what you are talking about or who the Dr is. I don't know what to say about oafish trash-talk like this. Apparently you're allowed to get away with it. I never said anything about "the Dr" whatsoever, and I made specific comments about what struck me about the apparent image quality of the sensor, as these images presented it. If you want to discuss the images in a civil way, then I'm willing to participate. But as usual, you go in with all your insult guns blazing away, making personal bullying attacks and pathetic schoolyard name-calling. Like I said, it always amazes me that you're allowed free rein. I guess you're the forum pitbull - doing the dirty work to keep any critical voices from being heard in a civilized manner. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 21, 2012 Posted December 21, 2012 Hi plasticman, Take a look here M-240 "Seeking Light". I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted December 21, 2012 Share #102 Posted December 21, 2012 Ok, gentlermen, that's enough entertainment for tonight. Please move on Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted December 22, 2012 Share #103 Posted December 22, 2012 I expect that Leica would, on balance, have preferred that these dismal efforts hadn't made it onto someone's blog. Spitting tacks, more like. As among the first - if not the first - images from the camera, they tell us nothing about it except that it has still to be a work in progress. Maybe we should give our hapless tester the benefit of the doubt that he never intended the images to be made public - can you imagine what his rejects looked like? Instead, his chum, our scribe, Raaj - who likes to show off his classical education by writing the plural of "forum" as "fora" (it isn't) - had a self-indulgent moment and couldn't resist the temptation for an exclusive. From his solitary post on this thread, I expect the Doctor has had his knuckles severely rapped by an apoplectic Leica. Which is as it should be. For this camera to emerge from development with a whimper, not a shout, is hardly what Leica would have planned. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted December 22, 2012 Share #104 Posted December 22, 2012 Hiatus? Ever heard about the Leica M-E yet? Ah yes, that camera which has taken the photographic world by storm. Is that a stifled yawn I can hear? There will certainly come a point where commercial pressures mount and all those stock-piled M240's (presuming there are any) have to go out the door no matter what. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecaton Posted December 22, 2012 Share #105 Posted December 22, 2012 Wow guys, what a night. Out of popcorn and beer. But it had to be expected after the first M8 and M9 discussions on this forum a couple of years ago. LOL! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 22, 2012 Share #106 Posted December 22, 2012 From his solitary post on this thread, I expect the Doctor has had his knuckles severely rapped by an apoplectic Leica. Which is as it should be. For this camera to emerge from development with a whimper, not a shout, is hardly what Leica would have planned. Wrong deduction. The blog has not been taken down. Elementary, dear Watson. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted December 22, 2012 Share #107 Posted December 22, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Perhaps it's not in the Doctor's gift to have it taken down? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted December 22, 2012 Share #108 Posted December 22, 2012 I expect that Leica would, on balance, have preferred that these dismal efforts hadn't made it onto someone's blog..... Who knows ? At least HERE (I didn't check other Leica - related forums) there has been a lot of attention towards the M240 - a result in itself - With a bit of hair-splitting and dietrology... one could think this leak has been part of a tactical plan... imagine that availability is planned for end 1Q13 ... and that at around end of Jan13 some other pics "leak"... from another tester... but (by pure chance... ) some of the issues hereby evidenced (banding etc...) look absent... mood of the people : "wow ! They are really working right on this !" Then, after another month about, some other and VERY FINE pics do "leak" : mood : "wow, it is arrivng soon and look GREAT !"... then some sort of vey well made "Web gallery" on the official site when deliveries start... After all, when a product is announced but released after a non negligible time, you must find the way to "cover" the timeframe keeping a certain level of attention on the product (also because some announcement from competitors can distract) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
viramati Posted December 22, 2012 Share #109 Posted December 22, 2012 Imported the shot of the flower arrangement into LR4 and considering that it is a jpeg and not avery high rez image the shadows looks less blotchy with less magenta hue than I would get out of the M9 at the same iso (in this case 1000). I agree these are hardly leica publicity shots to promote the release of the M but hey Guys it is Christmas so let have some goodwill to all men and be thankful for this little present Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted December 22, 2012 Share #110 Posted December 22, 2012 I'm still not convinced this is part of Leica's grand plan. Even if they did want to release some ordinary shots taken by a "friend of the family" as a pre-Christmas treat, they would have been in control of them and not released anything with such a dirty sensor. That's what makes me think that these were unauthorised and a cock-up. You'd never get Canon or Nikon doing this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 22, 2012 Share #111 Posted December 22, 2012 Given previous marketing ploys, I vote for Luigi's scenario. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted December 22, 2012 Share #112 Posted December 22, 2012 Ending stocks of M9/M9-P, slow M-E sales, long M-240 waiting lists... Those true/false leaks are preparing us for a near delivery date of the latter i would bet. With or w/o banding and plasticky look, that is the question. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted December 22, 2012 Share #113 Posted December 22, 2012 Ending stocks of M9/M9-P, slow M-E sales, long M-240 waiting lists... Those true/false leaks are preparing us for a near delivery date of the latter i would bet. With or w/o banding and plasticky look, that is the question. Indeed... , and that is the reason why I kept myself out of the preorder strategy : many things around and inside the M240 look exciting... but there will be the real owners' impressions that will play the most important role in my decision : I did for M8, and didn't regret... I don't remember anymore the "suffering" for having not a digital Leica while others had (maybe I even did not "suffer" at all... ... and my decision process around M8 has been the occasion to know and join this forum... ) Not that I consider my mood as so significant to be shared, but for what is worth at the moment it is : - 75% will buy it - 15% try to arrange some biz around M8--->M9(P/M-E?) - 6% do nothing - keep M8 - 4% look elsewhere in the EVIL world Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted December 22, 2012 Share #114 Posted December 22, 2012 So you don't want to be a paying beta (or theta) tester Luigi? Tss... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted December 22, 2012 Share #115 Posted December 22, 2012 So you don't want to be a paying beta (or theta) tester Luigi? Tss... ... if only could I be a PAID beta.... :D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted December 22, 2012 Share #116 Posted December 22, 2012 Ha ha! I will remain a free observer of paying beta testers complaining against paid ones i guess. Brave, but not foolhardy... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Branch Posted December 22, 2012 Share #117 Posted December 22, 2012 During the 1960’s the Kodak Research Laboratory in Harrow UK evaluated a wide range of lenses, with an emphasis on those for 35mm cameras. A sample of any new lens, particularly from Leitz, Zeiss, Canon or Nikon, was eagerly sought and evaluated. Some of the evaluation was by looking at the aerial image of test charts using a microscope. Much of it however was carried out by photographing a row of shops. The camera position was standardised as was the use of Panatomic-X film, time of day etc. A great deal of useful information could be gathered by carefully evaluating the negatives and doing comparisons. I remember that a Nikon 50mm f2 lens used at f4 had outstanding image quality in the centre of the field but the equivalent Leica lens was better overall. The important point being it was a test of the lens not the artistic ability of a photographer. A totally banal subject was all that was needed; indeed it was to be preferred. There may be lessons in this experience for this thread. Leica may like to engage very talented photographers to take its publicity shots but quite “ordinary” images can tell you much more about the technical performance of the equipment. I’m one of those who remember very well the saga of the M8 introduction and the feedback Leica reportedly received from its Beta Testers. I had the very first one sold in the UK. Neither I, nor Leica, want to go through that again. I’m in the queue for an M240 and I’ll wait until it’s of merchantable quality. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bybrett Posted December 22, 2012 Share #118 Posted December 22, 2012 Exactly. That’s the stage we are in right now. You need to give copies to all kinds of people so hopefully everything gets tested. Getting great shots from the beta testers is only a minor concern, if it is a concern at all. Optimising image processing is a different task quite distinct from the beta test that is pursued in parallel. I agree we don't need to see the beta testing photographs. I agree in welcoming new member Dr. Ulrich Rohde. After all, when a product is announced but released after a non negligible time, you must find the way to "cover" the timeframe keeping a certain level of attention on the product (also because some announcement from competitors can distract) I don't agree that this is some kind of carefully crafted plate spinning marketing plan. If as an alpha or beta tester you get into discussions on dpreview you can expect to be challenged. If in response you ask your friend to blog some images which are intended to be "convincing" then they better had be... That's why this has the hallmark of a cock-up and not a planned leak. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted December 22, 2012 Share #119 Posted December 22, 2012 Well, I do sincerely apologize if I besmirched the character of the Dr. who I'm sure is a fine and intelligent and well meaning person. And there are many lawyers, doctors, dentists, engineers, etc that are good photographers, many of whom I know (and I sure don't want to have my teeth fixed by a freelance photographer!). Stressful week and I probably should have just stepped away from the computer. I do think the photos themselves are of the most snapshot character possible, and I think Mr Norton nailed it. I suspect the camera was probably meant for the Dr.'s test bench and targets and not trips to Costco to be published as the first images from the flagship M (aside from the initial brochure). Thing is once they are out there they are out there so I can see Leica not bothering to go through the hassle of requesting the site be taken down, though I would imagine some wrist slapping behind the scenes and rereading of NDA's. Looking forward to this camera but as of yet not on any lists and would imagine my M9's (and new D600) will get me through until the waiting lists and early bugs get worked out. When I compare the image quality of the CCD M9 to the CMOS D600 it doesn't give me much hope (except nice to have the high iso's of the D600). But maybe Leica can pull it off. And maybe I can even pick up a used one at a great price in a year or two. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted December 22, 2012 Share #120 Posted December 22, 2012 Charles Peterson, you still shoot the coolest pictures on the forum... actually the coolest pictures, period. Love the photographs Graham Nash picked of yours for his rock book, "Taking Aim." Taking Aim - Unforgettable Rock 'N" Roll Photographs The Seattle Opening with Graham Nash, Jim Marshall, Henry Diltz, Joel Nernstein, Neal Preston, Chris Walter and more. http://www.amazon.com/Taking-Aim-Unforgettable-Photographs-Selected/dp/0811871010/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1356211986&sr=1-1&keywords=graham+nash+taking+aim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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