Any 50mm APO-Summicron-ASPH Deliveries Yet?

[spylaw4]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

On Leica rumours quoting Leica.

 

Note no date for delivery stated.

[Agent M10]

Good thing I didn't sell my Noctilux. Had put it up for sale to finance the APO.

[rramesh]

If this is,in fact,true then what a phenomenal waste of resources and manpower.

Mark

Any Faberge egg that did not meet quality criteria set was smashed with a hammer.

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Ramchand,

 

The Tsar of Russia could afford to pay for all of the broken eggs. The consumer pays for all of the developmental, prototype, production, etc costs when they buy the finished product.

 

A Faberge Egg is in essence a prototype. They were built individually to order. A 50mm Summicron is a mechanism built of a number of individually selected standardized parts w/ some degree of fitting & finishing. Some parts might require a greater degree of fitting & finishing than others. Some parts might even have to be made essentially as prototype parts. Individually.

 

Individual components made effectively as prototypes might or might not be destroyed if they do not meet requirements. As is the case with the manufactue of almost all mass produced components. There would be no reason to destroy the remainder of the components because some, or the summary of all of the components, did not meet specifications.

 

Most likely the problem is not how to assemble 1 lens but rather is: How to set up an assembly line that will produce lenses which meet specifications & do so, so that this assembly line can be run within the parameters necessary to produce lenses of the quality desired & @ the same time produce a reasonable return on investment.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

[marknorton]

Lens design books talk about tolerance margin where a design can be made more complex but at the same time less sensitive to real-world tolerances to make it easier to manufacture. Leica seems to go the other way and avoids over-complicating the design (and so introducing undesirable side effects) and instead relies on the precision of its build process.

 

It would be interesting to know where the problem is - beyond simply that the finished lenses do not perform adequately - but it seems clear Leica are pushing the boundaries of lens production.

 

I'm number 10 at my dealer, seems unlikely it will happen for me next year.

[wlaidlaw]

I had to be dragged away from the machine at Solms which uses magnetised metal tape and paramagnetic grinding powder. The level of magnetism is controlled by computer, to finish grind aspherical elements. It was mechanical ballet to watch. When you see something like this in action, you begin to understand the reason for the cost of Leica lenses.

 

Leica told me that other lens makers use a glass core with a pressed on aspherical plastic outer surface or a wholly plastic lens. This is then just finish polished without any grinding required. I asked why Leica did not use this process and the answer was that while these composite lenses can be very good when new, the rate of deterioration of these elements is unacceptably higher than an all glass element. The other approach is to use aspherical glass blanks pressed to a high degree of accuracy, which are then again, just finish polished and not ground. I believe this is what Cosina do. I was told by Leica that the degree of variability of such elements was too high to meet their standards.

 

I would guess that Leica is looking to avoid the issues they had with the 35 ASPH Summilux a few years ago, when it was apparent that the level of quality control, which may have been adequate for film cameras, was unacceptable for the M8. It was not just back or front focus issues but also the degree of variability of aperture shift was marked. All credit to Leica for taking this approach but given the price of the APO 50 Summicron, it is nothing less than buyers should expect.

 

Wilson

[Jager]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Alas, I am number one on the list at my dealer's, and so was particularly disappointed to hear of the recent delays. As Michael describes, I suspect it has much to do with establishing a repeatable production process - oftentimes a whole art form in and of itself, and probably every bit as challenging as coming up with the optical design in the first place.

 

I consoled myself by picking up the other lens on my short list of you-must-buy-before-you-can-retire - the Noctilux f0.95.

[cirke]

I had to be dragged away from the machine at Solms which uses magnetised metal tape and paramagnetic grinding powder. The level of magnetism is controlled by computer, to finish grind aspherical elements. It was mechanical ballet to watch. When you see something like this in action, you begin to understand the reason for the cost of Leica lenses.

 

Leica told me that other lens makers use a glass core with a pressed on aspherical plastic outer surface or a wholly plastic lens. This is then just finish polished without any grinding required. I asked why Leica did not use this process and the answer was that while these composite lenses can be very good when new, the rate of deterioration of these elements is unacceptably higher than an all glass element. The other approach is to use aspherical glass blanks pressed to a high degree of accuracy, which are then again, just finish polished and not ground. I believe this is what Cosina do. I was told by Leica that the degree of variability of such elements was too high to meet their standards.

 

I would guess that Leica is looking to avoid the issues they had with the 35 ASPH Summilux a few years ago, when it was apparent that the level of quality control, which may have been adequate for film cameras, was unacceptable for the M8. It was not just back or front focus issues but also the degree of variability of aperture shift was marked. All credit to Leica for taking this approach but given the price of the APO 50 Summicron, it is nothing less than buyers should expect.

 

Wilson

and this is the reason why we can wait long and pay a lot for Leica lenses and be very happy

[KanzaKruzer]

Chances are, most of the first batch is going to end users that will run the 50 APO through more testing than any other lens has received, given claims made by Leica.

 

Leica has to have the production process stabilized prior to release, or their reputation will be tarnished.

 

I don't mind the delay. I've been 1st on the list at my local dealer since the day the 50 APO was announced, and I expect flawless performance.

[k-hawinkler]

This story Nikon Imaging | NIKKOR - The Thousand and One Nights / Tale 28 : Ai AF Nikkor 28 mm f/1.4D sounds pretty similar, quote:

"However, the quality assurance department stopped volume production of the prototype lens."

 

Apparently this project was the follow-on to Nikon | Imaging Products | NIKKOR - The Thousand and One Nights / Tale 16 : Ai Noct NIKKOR 58mm f/1.2

 

It will be interesting to see how these two Nikkor lenses compare to their closest Leica counterparts on the M-240.

The 50mm APO-Summicron-ASPH, within spec, is indeed very tempting.

[semi-ambivalent]

and this is the reason why we can wait long and pay a lot for Leica lenses and be very happy

 

Better yet, your grandchildren can be very happy, that you made the decisions you made. When a (any) product reaches the level of design and quality of a Leica lens subsequent generations benefit. Most people are unable to see that far ahead and consumer culture is not here to help you in that.

 

s-a

[IWC Doppel]

I do hope Leica don't market lenses like Patek market watches... Whilst true and relavent, I found the pitch nauseous

 

Now where are my older photographer relatives who might have picked up. Nocti 1.2.... in thr 70's I must check the hand printed Xmas card arrived !

[ivohula]

I have been told today by a Leica rep who was very uncomfortable with the question, to expect delivery in July of 2013. This is not guaranteed.

[IWC Doppel]

Crikey, they must be having difficulty.....

[Erik Gunst Lund]

Any repair on the optical assembly of the Noct-Nikkor must be sent to Japan for calibration, also the rear element is an integral part of the rear aluminum housing of the lens, otherwise there would not be room for the rear element inside the mount.

I have worked on two Noct-Nikkor and can testify to the very high quality of the design and manufacture of the mechanical parts of the lens, I modified them with CPU for modern cameras.

A fantastic lens if you are into MF Nikon lenses with slim DOF but modern coatings etc has made it possible to make even better lenses...

[marknorton]

I'm a big fan of the Noct-Nikkor, images right up there with the Noctilux, the advantage being you can evaluate DoF more easily than the hit and miss focussing on the M.

 

Interesting that the lens can still be repaired in Japan. I bought mine on eBay and got Nikon UK to fix a slightly sloppy lens mount and focussing backlash but, as you say, no work required on the optical assembly. This was long before close focus correction.

[k-hawinkler]

I agree.

 

The Noct-Nikkor is one of my favorite lenses and it's a lot of fun to shoot on the D800E.

[marknorton]

I have been told today by a Leica rep who was very uncomfortable with the question, to expect delivery in July of 2013. This is not guaranteed.

 

I'm no 10 at my dealer, so it's going to be a long wait. Next year's equipment budget I think.

[Saad]

But Amazon are saying "usually ships in 2 to 4 weeks. And on Lloyd Chamber's blog he has delivery estimate from Amazon from 15 -29 of January 2013.

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[wlaidlaw]

But Amazon are saying "usually ships in 2 to 4 weeks. And on Lloyd Chamber's blog he has delivery estimate from Amazon from 15 -29 of January 2013.

 

Wishful thinking maybe.

 

Wilson