philipus Posted October 11, 2012 Share #1  Posted October 11, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) I think I have read somewhere - but, searching, I am unable to find the thread and so I'm not sure - that it is normal that the aperture blades can be retracted into the barrel a bit beyond 1.4. It's actually quite a bit.  Here are two photos of what I mean. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/189955-35-summilux-aperture-wider-than-14/?do=findComment&comment=2139295'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 11, 2012 Posted October 11, 2012 Hi philipus, Take a look here 35 Summilux aperture wider than 1.4?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Tonki-M Posted October 12, 2012 Share #2 Â Posted October 12, 2012 i've also read somewhere about this. the same thing can be done with the 35 cron asph. u apparantly get a 1/2 stop more at the wider end. Ken Rockwell also confirmed this in one of his reviews. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay B Posted October 12, 2012 Share #3 Â Posted October 12, 2012 Easy to test - put the lens on a camera, get a meter reading at marked widest aperture, then open past that & see if there is any appreciable exposure change. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinnfell Posted October 12, 2012 Share #4 Â Posted October 12, 2012 Many leica lenses do this. I dont know exactly why, but I suspect it has to do with the obsessive overengineering that Leica (thankfully) does. Perhaps the lens is actually f/1.2 or so if measured by for example canons standard? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
01af Posted October 12, 2012 Share #5 Â Posted October 12, 2012 ... I suspect it has to do with the obsessive overengineering that Leica (thankfully) does. Perhaps the lens is actually 1:1.2 or so ...? No, it isn't. With the aperture blades fully retracted, the lens speed is 1:1.4. When the blades are visible as they are in Philip's philipus first image above then the effective aperture is 1:1.7 or thereabouts. Â With my copy of this lens, the aperture blades will retract completely when the aperture ring is set to the 1.4 click stop. The ring can move slighty beyond the click stop but that doesn't affect the position of the aperture blades anymore. If at the click stop the blades are still visible (as in the picture above) and retract fully only when moving the ring beyond the 1.4 stop then the aperture mechanism needs some adjustment. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
myinoshi Posted October 12, 2012 Share #6  Posted October 12, 2012 No, it isn't. With the aperture blades fully retracted, the lens speed is 1:1.4. When the blades are visible as they are in Philip's philipus first image above then the effective aperture is 1:1.7 or thereabouts. With my copy of this lens, the aperture blades will retract completely when the aperture ring is set to the 1.4 click stop. The ring can move slighty beyond the click stop but that doesn't affect the position of the aperture blades anymore. If at the click stop the blades are still visible (as in the picture above) and retract fully only when moving the ring beyond the 1.4 stop then the aperture mechanism needs some adjustment.  Actually, my copy of the 35LUX exhibited the mechanism as shown in the OP's post. So this is normal. At 1.4, there is still some blade. If you move the aperture ring, you can go past 1.4 to fully hide the blades, but you'll have to hold the aperture ring there otherwise, if you let go, the aperture ring jumps back to 1.4. My conclusion is that with the blades showing it's not actually 1.4. It's more like 1.7 Only when you fully hide the blade will you get 1.4 The difference is so minimal that there is no noticeable in exposure. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyedward Posted October 12, 2012 Share #7 Â Posted October 12, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Actually, my copy of the 35LUX exhibited the mechanism as shown in the OP's post. So this is normal. At 1.4, there is still some blade. If you move the aperture ring, you can go past 1.4 to fully hide the blades, but you'll have to hold the aperture ring there otherwise, if you let go, the aperture ring jumps back to 1.4. My conclusion is that with the blades showing it's not actually 1.4. It's more like 1.7 Only when you fully hide the blade will you get 1.4 Â If this were so, all the other aperture detents would be innacurate, too. The degree of rotation between each 1/2 stop is the same (all the way to f16) including from f1.4 to f1.7. F1.4 is f1.4 Â This phenomenon occurs because of the1-2 degrees of free play in the aperture ring, which is widely known to be too damn sloppy. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeonfarmboy Posted October 13, 2012 Share #8 Â Posted October 13, 2012 Mine functions like the OP's as well. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonki-M Posted October 13, 2012 Share #9  Posted October 13, 2012 No, it isn't. With the aperture blades fully retracted, the lens speed is 1:1.4. When the blades are visible as they are in Philip's philipus first image above then the effective aperture is 1:1.7 or thereabouts. With my copy of this lens, the aperture blades will retract completely when the aperture ring is set to the 1.4 click stop. The ring can move slighty beyond the click stop but that doesn't affect the position of the aperture blades anymore. If at the click stop the blades are still visible (as in the picture above) and retract fully only when moving the ring beyond the 1.4 stop then the aperture mechanism needs some adjustment.  hmm, interesting. out of curiosity, i went to Leica yesterday and asked to see many 35 crons and some luxs to test this, all of them exhibits this further half-click. i dont think its a manufacturing fault. my cron from a year ago also does it.  i just simply never used the further click. if Leica decides for widest aperture to some aperture left, then perhaps it is best optically, is what i think. my 50 lux does not do this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jankap Posted October 13, 2012 Share #10 Â Posted October 13, 2012 Is it of any interest, if 1.4 really is 1.4? The DOF scale does not fit to digital sensors, for instance. One can measure the light with the camera itself and, check if the exposure time tends to differ in the 2 cases. Jan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
01af Posted October 14, 2012 Share #11 Â Posted October 14, 2012 ... my copy of the Summilux 35 mm exhibited the mechanism as shown in the OP's post. So this is normal. This kind of logic is unknown to me. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted January 1, 2013 Share #12 Â Posted January 1, 2013 My copy (FLE) also has this feature (not a bug). 01af, you probably have a defective lens (jokes apart, which version is it ?). Â The only reason I can think of, is to create diffraction starbursts even at the widest aperture. And the extra click to fully retract the blades may be - by design - a way to disable starbusts and get a round aperture. Will need to confirm this theory in practice though. Anybody ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth3kpl Posted January 1, 2013 Share #13 Â Posted January 1, 2013 Â With my copy of this lens, the aperture blades will retract completely when the aperture ring is set to the 1.4 click stop. The ring can move slighty beyond the click stop but that doesn't affect the position of the aperture blades anymore. Â +1 Mine too. Same for my 50/1.4Asph too. Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted January 1, 2013 Share #14  Posted January 1, 2013 +1Mine too. Same for my 50/1.4Asph too. Pete  Pete, is yours a FLE ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCharlton Posted January 1, 2013 Share #15 Â Posted January 1, 2013 Confirmed, I've owed multiple copies of the 35mm 1.4 lux ASPH FLE, and all exhibit the same behavior. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted January 1, 2013 Share #16 Â Posted January 1, 2013 Hi Philip. Happy New Year to you! Based on this (tiny) sample mentioned here there appears to be some small variation possible from lens to lens. I don't think it makes any practical difference. Can you see any variation in the exposure duration (on A) if you test? I looked at my (2 years old) sample for you and mine has a tiny edge (much smaller than in your photo) just visible at f/1.4 that is gone if I over-rotate the ring just out of the detent. With my (just returned from Solms service) 50 Summilux-M ASPH the aperture ring will not over-rotate past the f/1.4 detent at all and the blades are not visible at all at that position. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Gunst Lund Posted January 1, 2013 Share #17 Â Posted January 1, 2013 I know of only one lens where the aperture blades are visible by design; Macro-Nikkor 65mm f/4.5 I modified mine to give it a perfect round opening for nice OOF highlights. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipus Posted January 1, 2013 Author Share #18 Â Posted January 1, 2013 Hi Geoff! Happy New Year to you too! I can't believe it's almost a year since we saw each other. Â Thanks for checking your lens. I have not discovered any difference in metering between the two "settings" and also don't think it makes a practical difference. Perhaps under monitored test conditions in a studio it could affect metering a tiny bit but in normal circumstances any difference must be insignificant. Â I have been considering sending the lens in for check-up because I happened to drop it a few weeks ago I'll check my Christmas rolls and if it has behaved, well, unusually then I'll send it in and ask them to have a look at the aperture blades too. Otherwise, I won't because the visible blades don't bother me. Â My 50 Asph has a little bit of play beyond 1.4 and my 90 Elmarit-M as well. Both are black anodised and don't have visible blades. I also have a chrome 50 pre-asph and that one has almost no play beyond 1.4. All my black lenses have a more "rattly" aperture ring than the chrome, with much more distinct stops. Â Cheers Philip 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth3kpl Posted January 1, 2013 Share #19 Â Posted January 1, 2013 Pete, is yours a FLE ? Â Yes. Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted January 2, 2013 Share #20 Â Posted January 2, 2013 Philip, presumably your lens is under guarantee. I would suggest making a careful check on focus accuracy in critical conditions as well. I had shot little with mine (early production) that way and actually found that it was back focusing badly. It is fixed now . Maybe if you have any doubts it might pay to check everything carefully and if necessary get it all looked at during that guarantee period? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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