on the verge of buying an M8. should i?

[iedei]

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firstly let me say that i am fairly new to taking my photography seriously---so you should know i may be a little 'under educated' about some of the fine vocabulary details of camera features, pros/cons.

 

i have been using a Leica D-Lux 3 for about 3 years now, for roaming adventure photo taking. It's better than an iPhone as my wife uses, and i've always had great results with it. I am quite creative with whatever equipment I am stuck with when it comes to most things I own, so i make the most out of a regular P&S like the D-Lux 3---and shoot exclusively in manual mode.

 

through some of those photos, i've been asked to joint a scientific stock photography outlet so i can become a contributor. Obviously this requires me to update my tools---and I feel the urge to progress into nicer gear and something more in line with 'real photography'.

 

At first, i thought I would just grab an X1, as that seems more like a natural progression from the D-Lux 3. Then i thought I should probably just pick up a standard mass market DSLR from Pentax or something.

 

The problem is, I need to like my gear to use it. I like the X1, but it just doesn't feel special enough and will still require a reasonable investment. The 'mass market' DSLRs feel very cheap and badly designed. The aesthetics of them prevent me from even wanting to hold them. Sure this may be snobbery, especially from someone just learning about the details of photography----but i feel that's just my perspective.

 

So that being said---is the M8 a good camera for someone to practice and develop their photography skills upon? is it a camera that can provide me with enough room to grow, or is it more for the already refined photographer?

 

I've been obsessively reading posts on this forum for a few days about the M8 and its pros/cons/praise/critique, etc.....but I just would like your opinions on the matter.

 

finest regards,

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[jaapv]

First check that your stock agency accepts 10 Mp files, many ask (foolishly) for higher resolutions.

Having said that, if you are willing to make the effort, any rangefinder camera is a great tool for honing your photographic skills.

[iedei]

First check that your stock agency accepts 10 Mp files, many ask (foolishly) for higher resolutions.

Having said that, if you are willing to make the effort, any rangefinder camera is a great tool for honing your photographic skills.

 

yes they do...in fact the M8 is on their list of "approved devices"

[jaapv]

Well, in that case the second line of my answer applies. If you walk through the forums wou will find many helpful posts on photography in general and Leica M photography specifically. Have a look at the M9 forum as well, the cameras are very similar. The FAQ thread has helpful hints on camera holding, post processing, exposure and much more.

 

Oh- and welcome to the forum . Do post results in the photoforum - if you ask for critique you will often get useful remarks (and some you won't like )

[e1k3]

Welcome to the forum.

 

Use M8 myself for 3 years now. Well, the sensor only has 10 MP and may seem outdated. But every time I look at my prints, I am very very satisfied with the image quality the M8 supplies. For me IQ is perfect for 20x30 inch prints. I do not print larger.

Note the 1.3 crop factor. Could be a problem, if you like super wide angles. Not an issue for me. My 28mm is almost permanently attached.

With M8 you need UV/IR filters for the lenses. Not an issue for me.

Note high ISO capability is not the best. You better stay with 160 and 320. I only seldom use 640.

Bottomline: M8 even today is very viable digital camera, at least for me. And it is a Leica M. It is pure joy to use this photographic tool.

[bocaburger]

I wouldn't mind to buy an M8, but I would wait until the M10 is at least announced, and you can see where the prices of M8 and M9 shake out. You may even find it possible to stretch to an M9. In any case, speaking for myself only, I would not pay more than $1000 for an M8 given that it appears at least one major part (the LCD module) is no longer repairable, and there may be other parts as well. Given that repair of a major component would run in the $1000 range, paying no more than that for the camera would let me reconcile having to consider it disposable in case of a malfunction.

[iedei]

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Welcome to the forum.

 

Use M8 myself for 3 years now. Well, the sensor only has 10 MP and may seem outdated. But every time I look at my prints, I am very very satisfied with the image quality the M8 supplies. For me IQ is perfect for 20x30 inch prints. I do not print larger.

Note the 1.3 crop factor. Could be a problem, if you like super wide angles. Not an issue for me. My 28mm is almost permanently attached.

With M8 you need UV/IR filters for the lenses. Not an issue for me.

Note high ISO capability is not the best. You better stay with 160 and 320. I only seldom use 640.

Bottomline: M8 even today is very viable digital camera, at least for me. And it is a Leica M. It is pure joy to use this photographic tool.

 

should all the M8s have had the IR/UV filters installed into them? Leica gave these out for free right? I really just want great photos out of this, and am not that concerned with how many megapixels it is or otherwise. I was also thinking of starting with a 28mm lens as you are using! Thanks for the feedback.

 

 

I wouldn't mind to buy an M8, but I would wait until the M10 is at least announced, and you can see where the prices of M8 and M9 shake out. You may even find it possible to stretch to an M9. In any case, speaking for myself only, I would not pay more than $1000 for an M8 given that it appears at least one major part (the LCD module) is no longer repairable, and there may be other parts as well. Given that repair of a major component would run in the $1000 range, paying no more than that for the camera would let me reconcile having to consider it disposable in case of a malfunction.

 

is it that big of a problem with the screen? Most of the M8s i'm seeing for sale are for $1800 to $2500. I don't see them going to less than $1500....even after the M10 comes out.

[bocaburger]

should all the M8s have had the IR/UV filters installed into them? Leica gave these out for free right?

 

The UV/IR filters screw onto the lens, not installed into the camera. Unless you want to change filters every time you change lenses, you will want a filter for each lens. Leica did give them out for free. If you buy a used M8 you will have to buy the filters unless the seller includes them in the deal.

 

is it that big of a problem with the screen? Most of the M8s i'm seeing for sale are for $1800 to $2500. I don't see them going to less than $1500....even after the M10 comes out.

 

The screen will be no problem at all...unless it goes bad, in which case it seems Leica is saying they can't or won't replace it. Without the screen, you will not only not be able to preview/display images, but also you will not be able to see how to change camera settings other than the shutter speed which is on the top deck. The info displayed in the viewfinder of an M8 is sparse to say the least...not even ISO, so your only recourse would be to pre-set using the tethering program (which only offers setting a limited number of parameters access) and then avoid the back buttons like the plague when you're shooting.

 

Furthermore, the screen is just the first instance we've heard of Leica telling people the parts aren't available. We really have no way of knowing what other parts are already unavailable, or in extremely limited supply.

 

Don't get me wrong, it's possible you might buy an M8 and use it the next decade without a hiccup. But if in 6 months something goes wrong that you can't work around, and Leica tells you the camera is unrepairable, how will you feel about tossing it in the trash? Only you can decide how much you would be willing to risk on such a camera. If it's $2500 or $1500, fine. For me it is $1000. I did not say I expected prices to fall that far with the introduction of the M10. Neither can you say they won't...especially if it becomes widespread knowledge that these cameras are only partially supported for repair.

[mike_j]

Isn't the screen on the M9 the same as the M8 screen? Does the same obsolescence argument apply?

[tobey bilek]

I thought

German law was parts need to available for 7 years on items over 100 euro. In any case, this turns me off another M8 and the new M9 I was considering.

 

Leica is too expensive to be a throw away camera. $600 Nikon D3200 OK, but not $8000 Leica.

[bocaburger]

Isn't the screen on the M9 the same as the M8 screen? Does the same obsolescence argument apply?

 

Not sure if it's the same screen, or what other electronics might be carried-over as well. If so, the obsolescence argument would apply to the M9 also, in terms of the screen no longer being manufactured. It is entirely possible, and in fact IMO probable, that if the screens are the same, Leica has a stash of them reserved for in-warranty replacement on M9, M9P and M-Monochrom, but they will not use them up on M8s.

 

Much much more worrisome to me are the cracking sensors. Yet today another one was reported cracked. There is no way to accurately predict how many out there will eventually crack, or when, and unless Leica has stockpiled enough of them it could get really dicey in no telling how short a time. Until now they have been replacing them gratis even out of warranty, and that is certainly admirable. But once they get short on supply, I would highly expect them to reserve the remainder for M9P bodies still under warranty, for which Leica has a definite contractual obligation to service.

[bocaburger]

I thought

German law was parts need to available for 7 years on items over 100 euro. In any case, this turns me off another M8 and the new M9 I was considering.

 

Leica is too expensive to be a throw away camera. $600 Nikon D3200 OK, but not $8000 Leica.

 

Not sure about such laws in the USA, federal or by state. I've read different things but nothing accompanied by a statutory reference, so nothing I would take for fact.

 

I definitely will not be buying an M10 until such time Leica proves it is supporting the M9 longer than it has supported the DMR and M8. I would never have spent seven grand on a camera if I even suspected the potential serviceability was less than ten years. IIt's one thing if I choose voluntarily to upgrade in less time to gain new features and technology, but not to be forced into it because Leica is too money-greedy to stockpile enough parts for the M9. I'm not saying that is the case, I'm just saying if.

[fotoism]

"... scientific stock photography outlet so i can become a contributor...."

 

What subject matters will you be covering? When you mention "scientific" would that inlcude micro- or macro-photography? Or telephotography of planets or wildlife?

 

M8 is a wonderful camera but the above two areas are not its strength. Yes, you can use bellows and add a Visoflex ( I love doing that myself ) but a SLR might come in handy.

[iedei]

"... scientific stock photography outlet so i can become a contributor...."

 

What subject matters will you be covering? When you mention "scientific" would that inlcude micro- or macro-photography? Or telephotography of planets or wildlife?

 

M8 is a wonderful camera but the above two areas are not its strength. Yes, you can use bellows and add a Visoflex ( I love doing that myself ) but a SLR might come in handy.

 

I am doing microscopic photography with a separate Olympus setup on my Microscope.

 

macroscopically, i will be doing 'hospital based' stock photography (i.e.---various scenes in a hospital, signs, hallways, laboratories, operating rooms, etc....)

[wda]

I am doing microscopic photography with a separate Olympus setup on my Microscope.

 

macroscopically, i will be doing 'hospital based' stock photography (i.e.---various scenes in a hospital, signs, hallways, laboratories, operating rooms, etc....)

An M8 would be ideal for that kind of work. You can set white balance specifically for indoor lighting use and store as a preset in camera for future use in identical locations. However, I would set it each time in case the mix of artificial and daylighting changes.

 

While a 28mm focal length is tempting, I would have thought 50 or 35 would be far more useful to you. Ultimately a two or three lens set would make sense, but don't rush in until you have a clearer mind on your need.

 

M8 is a great camera for stock photography. Rest assured!

 

Welcome to the forum.

[iedei]

An M8 would be ideal for that kind of work. You can set white balance specifically for indoor lighting use and store as a preset in camera for future use in identical locations. However, I would set it each time in case the mix of artificial and daylighting changes.

 

While a 28mm focal length is tempting, I would have thought 50 or 35 would be far more useful to you. Ultimately a two or three lens set would make sense, but don't rush in until you have a clearer mind on your need.

 

M8 is a great camera for stock photography. Rest assured!

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

Thank you, wda. Friends of mine who are 'into photography' all seem to appreciate the Leica M series....however are not too keen on spending $2k+ on it.....but i feel like it would inspire me to take better photos....and inspire me to learn more about the art of photography. They suggest that i buy a DSLR for now, and then move up to a Leica M after i've tried different things; i don't really see the point in that....

 

I am starting to wonder if should start with a 35mm lens instead....and then go from there.

[WestMichigan]

Thank you, wda. Friends of mine who are 'into photography' all seem to appreciate the Leica M series....however are not too keen on spending $2k+ on it.....but i feel like it would inspire me to take better photos....and inspire me to learn more about the art of photography. They suggest that i buy a DSLR for now, and then move up to a Leica M after i've tried different things; i don't really see the point in that....

 

I am starting to wonder if should start with a 35mm lens instead....and then go from there.

FWIW:

I wanted to point out that If you are going to be shooting 'People' pix a'la environmental portraiture or anything similar then the Leica M cameras (& rangefinders in general) will tend to make your subjects feel more relaxed in front of your camera than SLRs will. Further, you as the photographer will have a different relationship with your subjects. It isn't a hocus pocus magic spell guaranteed to make you a better photographer or your subjects comfortable being photographed, but it is a real effect I've seen with my own eyes.

Richard in Michigan

[lct]

The OP pointed out the official shortage of M8 LCD monitors here.

Hard to advise him to spend $2K+ for such a camera then.

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[yenlo]

So that being said---is the M8 a good camera for someone to practice and develop their photography skills upon? is it a camera that can provide me with enough room to grow, or is it more for the already refined photographer?

Working with a rangefinder meant to take a bigger step back from DSLR.

The hardest part were the daily job routines - the moment you grab your dslr to shoot you usually don´t think about iso, focus or focal length. Just point, zoom, rough estimation on aperture and shoot to get the job done.

 

In the beginning the m8 was a rather tricky beast. Manual focussing on moving targets starts as a nightmare, noisy ISO above 320 and working with a tele lens - 90mm without viewfinder magnifier and i´m totally lost and still hate the dng format. Then there are some specialties with the m8 like the chance of color distortion like the switch to purple on clothes due to IR (you´ll might want an ir/uv filter). Image saving and display zooming is extreme slow. But on the upside after getting used to it your pics will get much better! you´ll start rethinking your motifs and routines while taking the speed out of it.

[iedei]

FWIW:

I wanted to point out that If you are going to be shooting 'People' pix a'la environmental portraiture or anything similar then the Leica M cameras (& rangefinders in general) will tend to make your subjects feel more relaxed in front of your camera than SLRs will. Further, you as the photographer will have a different relationship with your subjects. It isn't a hocus pocus magic spell guaranteed to make you a better photographer or your subjects comfortable being photographed, but it is a real effect I've seen with my own eyes.

Richard in Michigan

 

very good point. especially in the hospital setting people are already a bit stressed out and 'edgy'....so i really don't want to come across as obtrusive or overbearing when i start aiming a gigantic DSLR at them while they are working at a lab bench! the M8 I am wanting to buy is the black one, for even more discreetness!

 

The OP pointed out the official shortage of M8 LCD monitors here.

Hard to advise him to spend $2K+ for such a camera then.

 

i am worried about repairs....however life is full of small, financial risks...this will be one of them!

 

Working with a rangefinder meant to take a bigger step back from DSLR.

The hardest part were the daily job routines - the moment you grab your dslr to shoot you usually don´t think about iso, focus or focal length. Just point, zoom, rough estimation on aperture and shoot to get the job done.

 

In the beginning the m8 was a rather tricky beast. Manual focussing on moving targets starts as a nightmare, noisy ISO above 320 and working with a tele lens - 90mm without viewfinder magnifier and i´m totally lost and still hate the dng format. Then there are some specialties with the m8 like the chance of color distortion like the switch to purple on clothes due to IR (you´ll might want an ir/uv filter). Image saving and display zooming is extreme slow. But on the upside after getting used to it your pics will get much better! you´ll start rethinking your motifs and routines while taking the speed out of it.

 

thanks for this! After much reading and gathering of information posted by people such as yourself---i have gathered that the M8 has a lot of 'quirks'....but i'm looking forward to encountering them, as it will be interesting and hopefully satisfying to use a piece of machinery which isn't made just to 'point and shoot'.....i can definitely see why some of you appreciate the art of the machine, and i'm hoping this, in itself, fires up my imagination to inspire better photos and a desire to do something unique.

 

SO, i am picking up my Leica M8 this evening, if all goes according to plan!