Movement and shutter speed

[IWC Doppel]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Any views on the lowest shutter speed for fast movement, I have had challenges even at 1/1000th which I 'normally' find okay. Any rules of thumb here ?

[lars_bergquist]

No. I have had unsharpness because of subject movement even with electronic flash. It is all a matter of how fast the subject moves across the sensor.

 

You might use the unsharpness deliberately by setting a medium-high speed and panning with the movement. And if the legs and arms of a runner get a bit unsharp, well, that goes to show that he's moving!

 

The old man from the Kodachrome II Age (25 ASA)

[Paul J]

As for fast movement I would want to be as high above 1000 as possible and depending on the subject I will use Profoto flash where possible. Viewing the images on a computer or iPad is helpful here as there aren't really any set rules. Each situation needs it's own settings really.

 

Otherwise, normally I try not to go below 250th for critical sharpness. But I can get sharp images at 30th and sometimes below depending on the subject and how sturdy I am. My lenses longer than 50 show up the movement a lot more.

 

Movement whilst using flash is often flash duration. Small flashes generally increase the power by increasing the length of time the flash tube is activated for.

 

A SF24D has a duration maximum of 1/250th so it's possible to have some movement show up. It's not uncommon for flashes to have flash durations of 60th second though when used at full power. I have one flash in particular that I use for that on purpose.

[pico]

No. I have had unsharpness because of subject movement even with electronic flash.

 

Ach. Electronic flash is a step in the wrong direction. What ya need, ole-timer, is a big, slow Mazda base flashbulb with a peak to accommodate 1/4000th of a second shutter. 'Course tripping it before the shutter be a problem. A guy has to live 20 milliseconds in the future, but that's no big thang in hardware terms, but a call for flash talent timing.

 

Seriously, Lars' statement (snipped) is correct. One has to learn the equipment and subject and how to work technical shortcomings to his advantage. What moves, ah, moves! Usually.

[Messsucherkamera]

I have always heard two different versions of how to make certain your handheld images are sharp -

 

Version #1:

Take your lens focal length and make a fraction out of it.

If you are using a 50mm lens, 1/60 is the slowest shutter speed that will assure handheld sharpness.

 

Version #2:

Take your lens focal length and make a fraction out of it, then multiply it by two.

If you are using a 50mm lens, 1/125 is the slowest shutter speed that will assure handheld sharpness.

 

I am a version #2 adherent.

 

Usually.

[jdlaing]

I have always heard two different versions of how to make certain your handheld images are sharp -

 

Version #1:

Take your lens focal length and make a fraction out of it.

If you are using a 50mm lens, 1/60 is the slowest shutter speed that will assure handheld sharpness.

 

Version #2:

Take your lens focal length and make a fraction out of it, then multiply it by two.

If you are using a 50mm lens, 1/125 is the slowest shutter speed that will assure handheld sharpness.

 

I am a version #2 adherent.

 

Usually.

 

Me too. Anything slower than that I can do but as a hit and miss proposition.

[masjah]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I have always heard two different versions of how to make certain your handheld images are sharp -

 

Version #1:

Take your lens focal length and make a fraction out of it.

If you are using a 50mm lens, 1/60 is the slowest shutter speed that will assure handheld sharpness.

 

Version #2:

Take your lens focal length and make a fraction out of it, then multiply it by two.

If you are using a 50mm lens, 1/125 is the slowest shutter speed that will assure handheld sharpness.

 

I am a version #2 adherent.

 

Usually.

 

In his book Leica Reflex Photography Brian Bower says that in his opinion the 1/f minimum is too slow for consistently sharp results. Granted a rangefinder is easier in this respect than an SLR, but I just can't get a sharp image at these speeds. I go for 1/3f (or even 1/4f if possible) or else use a tripod.. I recognise that my personal performance is well below average in this respect!

[pico]

I cannot hand-hold less than 1/250 on an average day, and not longer than 1/1000 on a bad day.

 

BTW there is a well illustrated test of camera shake on and off a tripod in the book Way Beyond Monochrome. Even on-tripod there is movement at certain speeds. I'm sure everyone can noodle that out.

[bill]

Forgive me, but I thought the OP was asking about freezing movement when shooting action, not avoiding it generally. Much of the advice is the same, of course - good technique, high shutter speeds - but avoiding blur in action photography is as much about the speed and direction of movement of your subject as your own good technique. Panning is a proven means of capturing movement, but it does work best when your subject is moving broadly parallel to your own position. Life becomes infinitely harder when you are both moving, for example in two boats - but it is not impossible. When the subject is moving directly toward (or away) from you then I would advocate pre-focussing on a point in the landscape - a post, or tree for example - then waiting until your subject almost reaches it - I say almost to allow for shutter and reaction lag.

 

As with so many things in life, practice, good technique and a cool head are your best assets.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[IWC Doppel]

Yep, here you go today at 1/750th, and 1/1000th. I have no problem hand holding a 28mm or 35mm at 1/15th....

 

But catching a whippet in motion at 1/750th is another story, you'll note Olive (Our little whippet) has gone before the ball has left the hand in the bottom shot !

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[masjah]

Forgive me, but I thought the OP was asking about freezing movement when shooting action, not avoiding it generally. Much of the advice is the same, of course - good technique, high shutter speeds - but avoiding blur in action photography is as much about the speed and direction of movement of your subject as your own good technique. Panning is a proven means of capturing movement, but it does work best when your subject is moving broadly parallel to your own position. Life becomes infinitely harder when you are both moving, for example in two boats - but it is not impossible. When the subject is moving directly toward (or away) from you then I would advocate pre-focussing on a point in the landscape - a post, or tree for example - then waiting until your subject almost reaches it - I say almost to allow for shutter and reaction lag.

 

As with so many things in life, practice, good technique and a cool head are your best assets.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

 

OOPS! Bill, you are absolutely correct. Apologies for my own digression - classic example of "thread drift"!

[bill]

Absolutely no apology needed John, I had to read a couple of times to make sure.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[IWC Doppel]

Sorry for confusing you chaps, appreciate the advice. I have got much better at anticipation and catching a 40mph whippet side on with a 28mm lens, but at least 1 in 3 are still tail and back legs only !

[jaapv]

Much better t follow the subject and have the rest of the photo motion blurred and the subject sharp. See Dirk’s racing cars shots.

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/customer-forum/247648-135mm-f-3-4-apo-telyt-2.html#post2137102

[lars_bergquist]

In the 1930's and 1040's photography handbooks for amateurs often had tables with advice about what shutter speed you needed in order to 'freeze' moving objects. But these tables ended at 1/1000 for obvious reasons. They also gave different values for movement in different directions. Also, they openly or tacitly made assumptions about the distance to the subject. Obviously, a speeding express locomotive twenty meters from you, and a hundred meters, were two different moving subjects.

 

So, don't expect hard and fast rules.

 

The old man from the age of 1/1000th

[IWC Doppel]

Much better t follow the subject and have the rest of the photo motion blurred and the subject sharp. See Dirk’s racing cars shots.

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/customer-forum/247648-135mm-f-3-4-apo-telyt-2.html#post2137102

 

Nice shots, I think the issue is whilst Olive is moving horizontally at 40 mph or just under her legs, head and body are moving vigously on top. I'll try a little panning and see how I get on, at 8 feet away it's quite a bit of quick panning. I might try a 50mm a little further back, but framing gets more difficult !

[jaapv]

Yes, but if you get her head - and above all her eye! - tack sharp, any motion blur will only enhance the sense of speed.

[IWC Doppel]

Yes, but if you get her head - and above all her eye! - tack sharp, any motion blur will only enhance the sense of speed.

 

Now there's a challenge. Perhaps I can borrow a Noctilux and get the eyes, ear and nose only. I will just need three weeks of solid good weather, hand fulls of SD cards, batteries and dog biscuits, but it would be fun

[jaapv]

I normally use a 90 for this kind of work; if you look in my gallery here in the album animals you will find an example

http:/ /www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/members/17303-albums387-picture596.html

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[topoxforddoc]

You don’t need to freeze things if they are moving. If you do, they don’t look as if they’re moving. I like my objects to have some blur, whilst also retaining sharp areas.

1) Panning fast objects eg fast cars - usually no faster than 1/60th with lens stopped down (see Bugatti Veyron below - you can even read the letters on the brake calipers)

2) No faster than 1/125th for propeller planes. Otherwise the prop is frozen and it looks like a plastic airfix model hung in the sky (see plane shot)

3) Musicians - between 1/90th for guitarists and 1/30th for drummers - to catch the movement of the plectrum on the guitar of the sticks with drummers (see drummer below)

It’s hard to do this, but much better IMHO than super fast shutter speeds. These were all taken on my DMR.

 

Charlie

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!