lct Posted August 8, 2012 Share #141 Posted August 8, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Ha! This one is totally awesome and an instant classic! I almost want to use it as my tag line :-) ... perhaps you should consider to patent it now? Too bad it's in the public domain already Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 8, 2012 Posted August 8, 2012 Hi lct, Take a look here M10 with Live View - I'm wrong to yawn about this ?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jankap Posted August 8, 2012 Share #142 Posted August 8, 2012 Mine will not grow an EVF all of a sudden. Perhaps Leica offers an upgrade. Some of us would will call it a downgrade programm. Jan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 8, 2012 Share #143 Posted August 8, 2012 I suppose that to me its a bit like suggesting that the Canon 5D Mk4 should have and accessory EVF because it would be technically possible to fit one. But what's the point? It doesn't need one. And the same is true for M cameras - they don't need EVFs because they have a rangefinder and direct vision viewfinder. And the reverse is true too; An EVF camera doesn't need a rangefinder. So why bloat a perfectly good and usable concept by adding irrelevancies. Build a new camera with an EVF only - perfectly sensible. Its not the EVF concept, its the apparently desired evolution which is the problem to me.I have a distinct impression the Canon 5Dmk4 is not restricted in its focal lengths.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted August 8, 2012 Share #144 Posted August 8, 2012 If this is Leica's new direction (and there are hints on Steve Huff's site), then there are so many cameras that can do what the M10 will be able to do, only much better, that I already feel an MM may be my last new Leica, and I don't particularly want one of those either. So it is a 'yawn' from me right now, and it starts to make sense why I have been using film so much for the first time in ten years. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted August 8, 2012 Share #145 Posted August 8, 2012 What fun! How enjoyable! How challenging! How satisfying to the soul to be able to send a robot to do the job! I'm happy that there are cameras that can do this. It means that Leica doesn't have to... Regards, Bill Do you have any concept that many people need cameras for other things than just for personal enjoyment? There was no robot sent anywhere. Did you even bother to read the stories or are you just being "holier than thou" for some peculiar reason? They were remotely controlled by the photographers... including framing, zooming and firing by watching via live view on computer screens. There is no way that photographers could have been positioned in some of these locations.... with Leicas or anything else. Photographers have been using remotely controlled cameras for ages. Did you ever see the image by Bruce Dale using an Olympus OM attached to a jet as it came in for a landing? Yes it can be very challenging and there is no one path to "true" photography despite your being so judgmental. When the OM system camera out National Geographic photographers started using them because they had automatic exposure control that made them very useful for remote photography applications and Nikons did not have that feature. http://v1.brucedale.com/l1011.html In any case I was just pointing out that live view was being used at the Olympics whether you can appreciate that usefulness or not. But Reuters seems to like it. And it looks like some of the new Sony EVF cameras will be very useful for sports photography. So is it your view that Leica should never consider making a camera that is more capable than what they currently offer because that might just lead users astray from how you feel Leica M cameras should be used and only other brands should be chosen for these kinds of projects? If so, I am sure that Leica does not share your view and will want to make the M system as versatile as possible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted August 8, 2012 Share #146 Posted August 8, 2012 No, Alan, I was making the point that what Leica does best is not follow the herd. I was using "humour" to make my point. I don't wish that my toaster was a coffeepot, nor do I get excited at technology for the sake of it. We all know that the Leica M is not a tool you appreciate or use but that doesn't mean that we are all wrong and you are right. Please understand and accept that. Sent from another Galaxy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted August 8, 2012 Share #147 Posted August 8, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) No, Alan, I was making the point that what Leica does best is not follow the herd. I was using "humour" to make my point. I don't wish that my toaster was a coffeepot, nor do I get excited at technology for the sake of it. We all know that the Leica M is not a tool you appreciate or use but that doesn't mean that we are all wrong and you are right. Please understand and accept that. Sent from another Galaxy What humour are you referring to? There was a point there too? Who is asking you to get excited and who cares about your home appliances or the stupid Porsches, and pocket knives, that always come up to make what are supposed to be some kind of analogy. Surely Leica doesn't. I think that Leica will make the M as versatile as they can because that will be good for sales and profitability. It also fits in with the original idea of the camera... being a useful tool and not some kind of object of desire or a limited special purpose camera that some seem to make of it. It has nothing to do with anyone being wrong or right. Leica already said it wants to go this direction and I believe it will if it has the technological resources to do so. It has nothing to do with me or you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted August 8, 2012 Share #148 Posted August 8, 2012 You make my point most eloquently. Thank you kindly. Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bocaburger Posted August 8, 2012 Share #149 Posted August 8, 2012 Something nobody touched on so far is the added battery power that will be needed for sustained use of live view. It will be interesting to see how Leica handles that without increasing the size of the camera to house a larger battery, or requiring more frequent battery changes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 8, 2012 Share #150 Posted August 8, 2012 By using CMos (far more power-efficient than CCD) and more integrated electronic circuitry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bocaburger Posted August 8, 2012 Share #151 Posted August 8, 2012 Fair enough. I suppose there will need to be a different metering system in order to meter with the shutter open in live view? And as the shutter has to close from live view and then open again, will that affect lag time? Or will the M10 have a shutterless exposure mode also. Also, won't the live view mean much more wear and tear on the shutter? It will all be interesting to see. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
-ph- Posted August 9, 2012 Share #152 Posted August 9, 2012 With modern electronics, battery life should not be an issue. My E-P1 has a similar sized battery and easily takes 300 shots on one charge including all live view activity to take the shots. Exposure is measured with the main sensor, no shutter action needed for that. Metering with the main sensor opens up a lot of possibilities. The meter has full spatial information, so it can distinguish between a gray object and a black and white pattern for example. Also the meter would be color aware which would prevent blowing channels when metering strongly colored objects. Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted August 9, 2012 Share #153 Posted August 9, 2012 Are you proposing that an m10 should have no shutter? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted August 9, 2012 Share #154 Posted August 9, 2012 I think they mean the shutter could be like the m4/3 shutter, open all the time except when the release button is pressed when it closes and opens again to make the exposure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
swamiji Posted August 9, 2012 Share #155 Posted August 9, 2012 I think they mean the shutter could be like the m4/3 shutter, open all the time except when the release button is pressed when it closes and opens again to make the exposure. And you think you have a sensor dust problem now. A FF sensor with a shutter normally open, will be true dust magnate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted August 9, 2012 Share #156 Posted August 9, 2012 I have a distinct impression the Canon 5Dmk4 is not restricted in its focal lengths.... Nor were R cameras BUT they weren't modified Ms either. They were designed from the ground up (and were a far more effective option than the Visoflex - heresy I know). What baffles me about all the threads regarding added features for the M is the idea that taking a good existing concept and modifying it, with features which would be compromised by having to retain a mechanical rangefinder and its mechanism, will in some way produce a more versatile and effective camera. Building a camera specifically for EVF/live view from the ground up is a far better option - it could be M mount (or better still have an adapter for M fit lenses) and wouldn't suffer from the compromises of having to incorporate a rangefinder. What is so difficult to appreciate about this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 9, 2012 Share #157 Posted August 9, 2012 Nothing - and it is exactly the reason I will not upgrade to the M10 for an R solution - I will wait for Leica's EVIL solution - if it comes, and if not, there will be another satisfactory option by another maker in the future - the present ones are pretty close already. That doesn't make the addition of an EVF for those who wish it an anathema, as long as the basic use of the camera is unchanged. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted August 9, 2012 Share #158 Posted August 9, 2012 ...What is so difficult to appreciate about this? That we should buy two cameras where we can have one. In my youth i could not afford to pay for an M4 + a Leicaflex, so i purchased an M4 + a Visoflex. Simple no? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted August 9, 2012 Share #159 Posted August 9, 2012 And you think you have a sensor dust problem now. A FF sensor with a shutter normally open, will be true dust magnate. Not if the simple expedient of a wave filter or some other sensor cleaning device is used to shake the dust off. Something like that wouldn't go amiss even on a regular shutter/sensor combination. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted August 9, 2012 Share #160 Posted August 9, 2012 That we should buy two cameras where we can have one. Two cameras might make more sense from a marketing point of view though. Whether Leica might take pity on those of us who find affording multiple camera bodies not as easy as we might like is another question;). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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