proenca Posted July 23, 2012 Share #1 Posted July 23, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Honestly, the whole internet is hyped with the possiblity of the M10 having Live View. And hordes of people say it will be a game changer. Sorry - being honest here - I couldnt care less and even think will be a risky move to Leica, specially if they drop the optical VF and sport a EVF like some rumour sites say. Yes, would be nice to have LV on few situations - filters, macro but... game changer ? and really the possiblity of using SLR lens on a M camera is the game changer ? Wont the M10 will be just a very expensive m4/3's full frame camera ? If M10 means using EVF and LV, why bother ? honestly, why not buy a D800E and couple of lens and save a bucketload of money ? Is it just me to think if your main line of work is macro or long lenses ( which is the "supposed" game changer for the M10 ) , should you buy a dSLR instead ? Where you have AF, good high ISO performance ? all this makes me appreciate my M9 more and the nice pictures it takes - yes, its a camera that could be improved a lot, but LV aint what its on my wanting list. better high ISO would be my first one ; eletronic lines ( a-la-M9T ) second so I could stop smearing the framelines illumination window with my fingers. automatic sensor cleaning. faster SD card interfance that could use the speed of newer cards. bigger buffer. that would be welcome improvements. I love Leica M system - but I recognize its shortcomings - macro and tele being one of them. And I'm at peace with that. I love the small factor, the quiet shutter and I love the "magic" of focusing and looking through a rangefinder window. It really sets it apart from a all-bells-and-whistles-dSLR. Just think with LV, will be just a big VERY expensive point and shoot camera with fantastic interchangable lens. After being a M8 user since the day it was put on sale and having a semi traumatic experience with all that malarky, the M9 is almost perfect for me and have it as well since day 1 of sale - it is a really refined product. Hope that the M10 comes out soon with EVF and LV so I can turn to my M9 and say : you are not going anywhere my dear, perhaps you going to have a MM as a sister instead of that new fat sister of yours ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 23, 2012 Posted July 23, 2012 Hi proenca, Take a look here M10 with Live View - I'm wrong to yawn about this ?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
FlashGordonPhotography Posted July 23, 2012 Share #2 Posted July 23, 2012 Every ones needs are different. Personally i couldn't care less about high ISO. But I do realise that it's important to others. Adding live view would be super useful to me. The ability to shoot 1:1 macro would actually mean I could drop an entire camera system that I have to carry because the M9 has poor macro abilities. So for me it would definately change the game. But, the reality is that Leica needs to move the M system forward to survive. Modern cameras have live view and video, whether you use them or not. The market says they want live view and Leica needs to respond. Gordon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 23, 2012 Share #3 Posted July 23, 2012 Actually, if you go retro into the Visoflex system, it turnes out that the M9 can be exceedingly convenient for macro. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
01af Posted July 23, 2012 Share #4 Posted July 23, 2012 Every ones needs are different. Personally I couldn't care less about high ISO. And I couldn't care less about what others are yawning at. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted July 23, 2012 Share #5 Posted July 23, 2012 Not sure we need another thread on this issue at all!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted July 23, 2012 Share #6 Posted July 23, 2012 It’s an exercize in psychology … people fantasize about an unannounced product, fetch specs, dimensions, prices etc. out of thin air, then write about their emotional reactions to these fantasies. Which of course is terribly interesting, for students of human psychology anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinnfell Posted July 23, 2012 Share #7 Posted July 23, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) I sincerely hope that leica continues to improve upon what the M9 is already about - ultimate image quality in a small package. Not try to heap on features that others have done better for half a decade. LV i would use once in a while, EVF would make me take my money elsewhere. Maybe the MM moniker "Das wesentliche" will be a guiding motto for Leica? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted July 23, 2012 Share #8 Posted July 23, 2012 It will be a game changer. Not for the people who already use and know better, but for the hordes of people who want to use a Leica but are afraid of the viewfinder and of manual focus. I was one of those people but I took a gamble and won. I would have no essential need for live view but being able to use Long R Lenses would be a real treat. All I want is faster processing, robust internals and more Mega Pixels. I know, I know more MP is all a bit yawn but I have every intention of leaving my medium format digital days behind and sometimes I just need more MP. 36 would a god send. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted July 23, 2012 Share #9 Posted July 23, 2012 IMO live view on an M body is senseless. It won't do anything but add more heat. Even with live view I don't think 1/1 macro is possible unless you have a lens that focuses that close. Frame lines would have to be transposed to the screen. Anybody caught holding an M body at arms length or somewhere out in front of them to frame a picture should have their derrière removed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bocaburger Posted July 23, 2012 Share #10 Posted July 23, 2012 Actually, if you go retro into the Visoflex system, it turnes out that the M9 can be exceedingly convenient for macro. +1. I'd much rather view macro through a Visoflex than an LCD. To me "Live View" is a misnomer, because it's really looking at the subject on a little TV. Live view to me means a mirror+prism or a straight-thru viewfinder. Plus, there is no Leica rangefinder lens (includes the 90 so-called Macro that isn't really) that will focus down to 1:1 mounted directly to the body. With Live (screen) View you would still need extension between the body and lens, or adapt an SLR macro lens. I personally don't mind if the M10 has Live View, although it kind of bothers me that I know it will account for part of the inevitable price increase. I can guarantee I won't ever use Live View though. As it is now, I've never used the LCD to display an image, just use it for the menus, and as infrequently as possible. All I ever wanted was a digital version of an M film camera, the M9 does that fine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vip Posted July 23, 2012 Share #11 Posted July 23, 2012 Yes! I think that the combination of a EVF and the traditional M viewfinder can only expand the M possibilities and increase the possible users. In addition not seeing so many that needs to add another SLR body and lenses for the different purposes. THe progress that Leica did in the past was not always welcome at first. Only later was rediscovered. An example for everithing a macro with a Leica and no mirrors moving, or a 180 can be a dream. This also can be a fair sR solution as promised Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted July 23, 2012 Share #12 Posted July 23, 2012 Have had an M8 for 10 months, nice but not really nice. M9P chrome would perfect. No interest in iso 2500. 400 more than enough. EVF would be a great big "sell it to someone else". Three of my nikons have LV. Not sure I remember how to turn it on. I did use it the other day to "rough in" auto focus fine tune. That is another dislike, if AF does not always work perfectly you are better off without it. But the screen is not set up for Manual focus. How about a plain old film camera with digital sensor? M9P ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted July 23, 2012 Share #13 Posted July 23, 2012 Actually, if you go retro into the Visoflex system, it turnes out that the M9 can be exceedingly convenient for macro. Not really in my working environment. As a wedding photographer, and based on the way I work, it's just more phaphing (yes that's a new word) around than I'm prepared to do. The Visoflex is large, cumbersome and inconvenient, for me. With the size and extra complexity of the Visoflex (and the extra lenses) I may as well stick with a DSLR for the 3 macro shots I need to take at every wedding. Not to mention the difficulties in adding flash, which the Visoflex complicates. If the M10 had live view and a new macro lens (1:1) then I could a)switch lenses as normal and use the lens as a short tele with the rangefinder and as a macro with the live view. My ultimate working kit would be two M bodies and four lenses (21, 50, 90 and 135) with the 90 doubling up as a macro lens. I have two M9's now, but I also have to carry another system to shoot some specialised shots at each wedding. I'd just love to eliminate that extra system. I'm better off with a Panasonic Gx1 and a 45mm macro. The Visoflex is a great solution for some. But unfortunately, not for me. Gordon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaques Posted July 24, 2012 Share #14 Posted July 24, 2012 It’s an exercize in psychology … people fantasize about an unannounced product, fetch specs, dimensions, prices etc. out of thin air, then write about their emotional reactions to these fantasies. Which of course is terribly interesting, for students of human psychology anyway. which leads me to a second excerise in psychology: one group of people fantasize about new products- and then other people take joy in raining on the first groups parade... terribly interesting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaques Posted July 24, 2012 Share #15 Posted July 24, 2012 Even with live view I don't think 1/1 macro is possible unless you have a lens that focuses that close. . or a simple M macro adaptor ring/tube of course... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 24, 2012 Share #16 Posted July 24, 2012 How macro do you need to go as a wedding photographer? Isn't the 90 macro the answer for you, 18 Mp do allow cropping? Just out of interest. Not really in my working environment. As a wedding photographer, and based on the way I work, it's just more phaphing (yes that's a new word) around than I'm prepared to do. The Visoflex is large, cumbersome and inconvenient, for me. With the size and extra complexity of the Visoflex (and the extra lenses) I may as well stick with a DSLR for the 3 macro shots I need to take at every wedding. Not to mention the difficulties in adding flash, which the Visoflex complicates. If the M10 had live view and a new macro lens (1:1) then I could a)switch lenses as normal and use the lens as a short tele with the rangefinder and as a macro with the live view. My ultimate working kit would be two M bodies and four lenses (21, 50, 90 and 135) with the 90 doubling up as a macro lens. I have two M9's now, but I also have to carry another system to shoot some specialised shots at each wedding. I'd just love to eliminate that extra system. I'm better off with a Panasonic Gx1 and a 45mm macro. The Visoflex is a great solution for some. But unfortunately, not for me. Gordon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hifigraz Posted July 24, 2012 Share #17 Posted July 24, 2012 IMO live view on an M body is senseless.Frame lines would have to be transposed to the screen. Why? As I believe you would see what you get. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted July 24, 2012 Share #18 Posted July 24, 2012 Naturally there are no frame lines in live view. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted July 24, 2012 Share #19 Posted July 24, 2012 How macro do you need to go as a wedding photographer? Isn't the 90 macro the answer for you, 18 Mp do allow cropping? Just out of interest. I'll go to life size, at least on m4/3, which is 2:1 on 35mm. Even then i usually crop. Engagement rings are not that big and sometimes the brides need the rock in the ring to be bigger than real life ;-). Also, while I haven't owned the 90mm macro, I did get to play with one and the parralax error was pretty severe. I'm not unhappy using the Panasonic for ring shots, although I do have some extension tubes on order so I'll be switching to using my NEX 7 soon as I prefer the 3:2 ratio. (And my 90mm Summarit makes a real nice 135mm equiv on the NEX.) However the main reason I moved to the M system was for the size and weight compared to my DSLRs. I'm still travelling much lighter than I used to (6kg compared to 18kg). I'd really love to be shooting all M's. Don't get me wrong. I knew the system limitations when I got in and I'm happy with the compromises. If the M10 is released at photokina I'll still be 12 months away from purchasing one. But this is one of those "I want" threads. I'm just offering another opinion. It's always fun to have a chat, argue a point with people you respect and say "what if...." Gordon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 24, 2012 Share #20 Posted July 24, 2012 I see. Well, the M10 should solve that for you . Try and get a bellows - an old Elmar or Elmar-M 135 is about the best macro lens I have ever seen, and if you just take the bellows -it has an M-mount- and lens head that should ease the strain on your shoulders considerably. (or your assistent's ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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