can't code 35mm?

[dickgrafixstop]

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A good friend recently sent in his 35mm summilux (pre) to New Jersey Leica for tuneup and coding. Tune up was fine, but no coding. Camera store told him Leica says it couldn't be

coded. Any guesses why? Is it just a case of age and no profiles for older lenses? Or is

it an attempt to sell newer lenses>

[TomB_tx]

The mounts for some of the older lenses either have screws in the wrong place (interfere with the code) or have other mount differences so new coded mounts don't fit. I also don't believe there is a code for the older 35 Summilux.

They can be "hand coded" with a marker to the 35 Summicron code.

[tobey bilek]

The old Summilux was a screw pattern where one screw was in the coding path. I hand painted the screw on one lens, on a few others I used the new type 1 mounts from jinfinance on Ebay which results in slots positioned properly, but only 5 screws accessible.

[John McMaster]

The 35mm Summilux pre-asph has a different, more integral mount. Most other lenses it is just a mounting flange but not with this lens. Off the top of my head, there are no screws on the rear mount, I have made markings for a mkIV Summicron on mine.

 

john

[lct]

There is no screw on my 11870 Summilux and no jinfinance bayonet can fit. Leica don't want to code it but it can be done either by DIY or by workshops like Will van Manen's in Netherlands if memory serves.

[jaapv]

The mounts for some of the older lenses either have screws in the wrong place (interfere with the code)

 

Tippex....

[adan]

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As chiaroscuro_NZ says, the pre-ASPH 35 Summilux has an oddball mount compared with most** other Leica M lenses made post-1979 (and today). The mount has NO screws on the back, is thicker (the silver flange) and is attached internally and from the side. (So much for the theory that screws interfere with coding - the one in the "wrong" place is simply moved or omitted on coded mounts)

 

See: http://arsenal-photo.hk/bilder/produkte/gross/Leica-M-1-14-35-mm-Summilux_b3.jpg

 

and compare to: Leica Camera AG - Service - M lens coding

 

Leica codes lenses by swapping out the silver flange on the lens for one with the 6 pits machined into it. When they began offering retrofitting coded mounts with the M8 intro in 2006, they basically made a cost-based judgement call to support only lenses with the "modern" 27-year-old standard thin 6-screw flanges - essentially only post-1979 lenses (although a few lenses - 90 Tele-Elmarit v.2, for example - had the new-style mounts pre-1979, and were supported.)

 

There is a list of supported lenses on that second link as a .pdf file - page 2 shows which discontinued lenses can be coded. Anything not on the list can't have coding added - and that is basically lenses with the older Summilux-type flange.

_________________

 

**the other exception, among post-1979 lenses, was the 135 Tele-Elmar-M, which had the same "no screws" mount style well into the 1990's. It is also not a codable lens. Other PRE-1979, lenses (28 Elmarit v. 1 and 2; 35 Summicron v. 1,2,3; fat 90 summicrons and Elmarits and Tele-Elmarit v. 1; etc.) were also left off Leica's list of codable lenses.

 

They simply aren't supported for digital use, just as non-AI Nikkor lenses are not supported for metering with the digital Nikons. If you can get them to work, fine - but from the company's point of view they are "out of service life" when it comes to 6-bit coding or AI conversions.

[01af]

There is no screw on my 11870 Summilux [...]. Leica don't want to code it but it can be done either by DIY or by workshops like Will van Manen's in Netherlands ...

No, it cannot.

[lct]

Do you mean by Van Manen? Otherwise, yes it can.

[jaapv]

Just hung up on Will.

Utter amazement Why not?

It is just 25 Euro more because it is more work to adjust in his machine. The only lens he cannot code is the Hologon, but that one is unusable on a digital M anyway.

[01af]

Do you mean by Van Manen?

By anyone, including Leica Camera AG.

 

 

Otherwise, yes it can.

No, it can't.

 

 

Just hung up on Will. Utter amazement. Why not?

So Will doesn't know what he's doing

 

 

The only lens he cannot code is the Hologon ...

There are several lenses he (or anyone) cannot code. He may be able to slap six black and white patches on any lens' bayonet flange. But he cannot make the digital M cameras automatically recognise the Summilux 35 mm lens ... because this lens has no code assigned. Or actually, it has, but it's a code not expressible in six black and white patches on the bayonet flange.

 

We had this topic soo many times before. Just why do we have to chew through it over and over again?

[lct]

Suffice it to code the lens like a Summilux asph or a Summicron 35/2 v4. Works fine for me.

[jaapv]

 

 

 

So Will doesn't know what he's doing

 

 

 

 

Not really likely... I know whose word to trust, and it is not some internet voice.

There is no objection to coding a lens to the nearest equivalent. We are doing that all the time, with Zeiss, CV, a few Leica lenses etc. There is no call for absolutism for the sake of pedantry.

[01af]

Not really likely ...

Then why was he amazed?

 

 

I know whose word to trust, and it is not some Internet voice.

That's up to you. Just don't be too disappointed when your Summilux 35 mm returns from coding at van Manen's and the camera thinks it was a Summicron. Or a Summilux Asph.

[rickp13]

"Suffice it to code the lens like a Summilux asph or a Summicron 35/2 v4. Works fine for me."

 

me too..........

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[jaapv]

Then why was he amazed?.

Because he is somebody who goes for practical solutions based on thorough knowledge and experience and is not stuck in sterile theory....

[01af]

Because he is somebody who goes for practical solutions based on thorough knowledge and experience and is not stuck in sterile theory ...

So he happily dremels along on customers' lenses but has no idea about the underlying theory? Thanks for the warning. At the very least he should be aware that, for example, the Summilux 35 mm cannot be coded as such (which will come as a surprise for most customers, I guess) and educate his customers about the idiosyncrasies and alternatives before he starts working on the lens. And there are more Leica lenses like that.

 

Instead, he is "amazed" ...

[jaapv]

Not really - he knows more about the theory than you'll ever do.He was amazed not at the lack of an exact Leica code but at the rather - ummm.... nuanceless post you made.

[jaapv]

Just don't be too disappointed when your Summilux 35 mm returns from coding at van Manen's and the camera thinks it was a Summicron. Or a Summilux Asph.

I don't think so, as we would have discussed the exact coding I would prefer for this lens beforehand.

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[jaapv]

As chiaroscuro_NZ says, the pre-ASPH 35 Summilux has an oddball mount compared with most** other Leica M lenses made post-1979 (and today). The mount has NO screws on the back, is thicker (the silver flange) and is attached internally and from the side. (So much for the theory that screws interfere with coding - the one in the "wrong" place is simply moved or omitted on coded mounts)

 

See: http://arsenal-photo.hk/bilder/produkte/gross/Leica-M-1-14-35-mm-Summilux_b3.jpg

 

and compare to: Leica Camera AG - Service - M lens coding

 

Leica codes lenses by swapping out the silver flange on the lens for one with the 6 pits machined into it. When they began offering retrofitting coded mounts with the M8 intro in 2006, they basically made a cost-based judgement call to support only lenses with the "modern" 27-year-old standard thin 6-screw flanges - essentially only post-1979 lenses (although a few lenses - 90 Tele-Elmarit v.2, for example - had the new-style mounts pre-1979, and were supported.)

 

There is a list of supported lenses on that second link as a .pdf file - page 2 shows which discontinued lenses can be coded. Anything not on the list can't have coding added - and that is basically lenses with the older Summilux-type flange.

_________________

 

**the other exception, among post-1979 lenses, was the 135 Tele-Elmar-M, which had the same "no screws" mount style well into the 1990's. It is also not a codable lens. Other PRE-1979, lenses (28 Elmarit v. 1 and 2; 35 Summicron v. 1,2,3; fat 90 summicrons and Elmarits and Tele-Elmarit v. 1; etc.) were also left off Leica's list of codable lenses.

 

They simply aren't supported for digital use, just as non-AI Nikkor lenses are not supported for metering with the digital Nikons. If you can get them to work, fine - but from the company's point of view they are "out of service life" when it comes to 6-bit coding or AI conversions.

The stupid thing is that Leica is into the swapping-of-mounts and adapts their "cannot" to this limitation.

And as soon as they get into theoretical considerations they run into the contradiction that the 135 "cannot be used thus will not be coded" despite supplying framelines and magnifiers, denying practical evidence to the contrary in the process.