Ellie Posted May 30, 2012 Share #81 Posted May 30, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) I think the Dr K comment was a bit unfortunate, but the context was a product launch of new cameras and perhaps he tried to drum up a high demand for the new MM? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 30, 2012 Posted May 30, 2012 Hi Ellie, Take a look here AP interview with Dr Kaufmann. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
M9reno Posted May 30, 2012 Share #82 Posted May 30, 2012 Actually, does Jaguar market its cars as possessions "for a lifetime"? The more I think about it, it makes little sense for a company that has so blatantly embraced the modern three-year product cycle to continue with this "lifetime" nonsense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 30, 2012 Share #83 Posted May 30, 2012 Well, given the price I tend to drive them to very end of their technical lifespan, other roadusers allowing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJP Posted May 30, 2012 Share #84 Posted May 30, 2012 Still I want a Leica T-shirt with red logo. It is obvious that they can add a suitable markup so long as it costs less than my 50/1.4. ASPH front lens cap. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveYork Posted May 30, 2012 Share #85 Posted May 30, 2012 So you have a problem with Leica giving a realistic assessment? You would much much rather have them tell you fairytales about the glorious future of film? What would be so ethical about that? But I trust that photographers who have decided to stick with film know what they are doing. Either you missed the point or you're purposely being ignorant. It's about diplomacy and word choice. It's not the substance of the message, but how it was communicated. He could've communicated the same message in a substantially more diplomatic fashion. That's the point. And, in fact, it was unwise from a market perspective. Leica products are niche. They appeal to a small segment of consumers. They've drawn in lots of new users with their full frame digital rangefinder, but that's because they caught the competition flat footed. The market's now changing. The competition is stronger and getting stronger. So who are the untapped market for a niche product? Are the non-traditional markets sufficient to keep sales going? Maybe. But don't forget about all those people still putting film through rangefinders or other Leica cameras. That's an untapped market too, especially if you truly believe they'll be forced into another medium. So from a market perspective it's not wise to alienate potential buyers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M9reno Posted May 30, 2012 Share #86 Posted May 30, 2012 their technical lifespan Good point: the relevant "lifetime" need not be the user's, but the object's. So the MP is a camera "for a lifetime", meaning "for the lifetime of film", which Leica claims will be five more years (for colour) or a perhaps (a little?) more (for black and white). Nice one, Leica! (Let's stay nice, guys!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted May 30, 2012 Share #87 Posted May 30, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Its hardly a revelation that the demand for film is rapidly diminishing, or that there's a possibility that the trend might continue to the point where colour film is more or less obsolete in a few years' time. I'd rather Leica face facts and speak openly when addressing this issue than continue blithely to pretend that nothing is changing. And I don't give a toss what type of shirt anyone wears. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted May 30, 2012 Share #88 Posted May 30, 2012 Its hardly a revelation that the demand for film is rapidly diminishing,..... With respect, where have you been over the last few years? It is now possible to buy films that were almost impossible to get ten years ago, and the niche market is firmly established for many companies dealing in 'analogue' techniques. It only needs the jump to be made with colour film and the circle of resurrection is complete. There is a healthy market out there, and one where any new camera has a good chance of finding buyers. Forget 'Kodak', look deeper. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 30, 2012 Share #89 Posted May 30, 2012 Good point: the relevant "lifetime" need not be the user's, but the object's. So the MP is a camera "for a lifetime", meaning "for the lifetime of film", which Leica claims will be five more years (for colour) or a perhaps (a little?) more (for black and white). Nice one, Leica! (Let's stay nice, guys!) LOL! Well done! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 30, 2012 Share #90 Posted May 30, 2012 With respect, where have you been over the last few years? It is now possible to buy films that were almost impossible to get ten years ago, and the niche market is firmly established for many companies dealing in 'analogue' techniques. It only needs the jump to be made with colour film and the circle of resurrection is complete. There is a healthy market out there, and one where any new camera has a good chance of finding buyers. Forget 'Kodak', look deeper. Steve Exactly what I have been saying. The market is shifting from a few large companies to larger numbers of small industries. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted May 30, 2012 Share #91 Posted May 30, 2012 With respect, where have you been over the last few years? It is now possible to buy films that were almost impossible to get ten years ago, and the niche market is firmly established for many companies dealing in 'analogue' techniques. It only needs the jump to be made with colour film and the circle of resurrection is complete. There is a healthy market out there, and one where any new camera has a good chance of finding buyers. Forget 'Kodak', look deeper. Steve Dead cat bounce! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M9reno Posted May 30, 2012 Share #92 Posted May 30, 2012 Perhaps we can ask the Doctor to rectify his statement taking into account the points of Steve and Jaap. I think I might then agree to make my peace with him. And maybe I could forget that sexy black T-shirt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted May 30, 2012 Share #93 Posted May 30, 2012 Exactly what I have been saying. The market is shifting from a few large companies to larger numbers of small industries. Consider the new Plustek multi format scanner, from a company in the market and seeing the real sales from their 35mm scanners. Why bother developing new products if there was no mileage? Dr Kaufmann dropped one, so to speak, or he isn't the person Leica needs right now. Steve P.S. The absurd thing is that in the overall niche market for film why shouldn't Leica 'brand' its own line of film. It could be an Agfa derived film, or Ilford, but what trick they are missing, and it ties in with camera sales. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted May 30, 2012 Share #94 Posted May 30, 2012 So if Leica change the battery, say, for the M10 and stop ordering M9 batteries and say 'it's up to M9 users to find an alternative' then that's OK too?? Sorry but Dr Kaufmanns statement - whatever your preference for medium - was on any level, ignorant at best. He sells film cameras for gods sake! Drop them altogether AND say it's because you dont see any future in film, but don't try to sell film cameras whilst saying there's no future. Put your money where your mouth is Dr Kaufmann & drop your film cameras if that's what you really think! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M9reno Posted May 30, 2012 Share #95 Posted May 30, 2012 James, the button will only let me thank you once, so: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted May 30, 2012 Share #96 Posted May 30, 2012 I think you're all being way too precious. Tee shirt? Right. I only buy my cameras when the owners wear Armani, thank you. Show some respect to me by dressing properly! Believe me, I do understand. The owner of the company has been tactless in stating the blindingly obvious. What he should do is to continue to make and sell film cameras in numbers which will continue to employ all his staff, and give him a return on his capital, if he could sell them (oh, right, we've been there before); or he acknowledges that film is approaching the end of its life (which is true - it will always be available as a niche product, but it won't support a company like Leica; Nikon or Canon, which have basically given up making film cameras). Sure, there will always be film users (I'm one) and my M3 will see me out. But you can't run a company making film cameras on that. The other interesting thing is that I like my Leicas. A lot. They still work really well, regardless of what the Chairman of Leica wears, or says; or what Leica sells now or in the future, because my M3 was made to last a life time, and it is doing just that. And I'm sorry (Keith, a few pages back), the fact that Voigtlander cameras are available in the UK or elsewhere does not mean that film, or camera production is alive and well - I would wager they sell bugger all considering the size of the UK. See the comment above - Leica is a prestigious film camera company, but people need to buy them for the company to remain in business. 100 cameras? Not enough. Cheers John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted May 30, 2012 Share #97 Posted May 30, 2012 It's about diplomacy and word choice. It's not the substance of the message, but how it was communicated. He could've communicated the same message in a substantially more diplomatic fashion. Can you deal with the truth, even if delivered bluntly? I sincerely hope so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted May 30, 2012 Share #98 Posted May 30, 2012 I would actually say the demand for film is increasing again. The digital generation has been around, believe it or not, the span of almost one human generation which is roughly 25 years. There is a new generation coming up who are fascinated with the craft of film. It's legendary and I think, almost considered sacred by those enthused and curious by it. There's so much history, heritage and craft in film which combined with the nostalgia of this generation is a very valuable and powerful thing indeed. It's a process and craft that people want to learn and I really feel there is no other magic like watching a print fade into materialisation in a developing bath. A blank white page turning into something, thoughts becoming things etc. I certainly get the distinct feeling recently amongst particularly the younger generation that if it if you shot it on film, it's makes you more a photographer and that it gives the said photo more purpose. I'm reading more and more over the internet that people are putting down the digital cameras and picking up film cameras again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted May 30, 2012 Share #99 Posted May 30, 2012 So, as I've said, he should just drop them altogether shouldn't he? He'll get lots of free publicity too - creators of the 35mm standard format drop film cameras, film is over says chairman.... We're all guessing if he actually meant what he said or just made a flippant remark without thinking it through first. If he meant it why not drop the film cameras? Free up resources for the digital lines. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M9reno Posted May 30, 2012 Share #100 Posted May 30, 2012 it will always be available as a niche product... That's what I wish the owner had said, but he was too busy trying to be cool and forgot to say it. He spoke of the "end of film" at the Berlin announcement, and then underlined this by giving colour film five years - and b&w maybe a little more - in an interview. Yet he still sells two models of film cameras that supposedly last "a lifetime". Let's stop making excuses for him. Either he was exaggerating his company's pessimism for film in order to drum up interest for the MM, or in truth he is pessimistic (and "lifetime" really stands for "five years") and shamelessly flogging £3,000 soon-to-be paperweights. Either way it looks pretty bad! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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