andybarton Posted May 31, 2012 Share #181  Posted May 31, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) But, there are companies such as Efke (diabolical half-finished "Lorem ipsum" website, btw) which only make film and paper.  To them, it's 100% of their business.  Ilford produce hundreds of miles of film every year - because it's their business.  Fujifilm do all sorts of other products like  Digital Cameras 3D Image Products Films & Cameras Binoculars Supplies Business Products Medical Systems Life Science Systems Graphic Systems Photofinishing Products Motion Picture Films Optical Devices Recording Media Industrial Products Image Management  The film part is not that important to them any more. So much so, that they appear to have deleted ALL of their black and white films. Definitely not to be seen on http://www.fujifilm.com/  Long live Ilford... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 31, 2012 Posted May 31, 2012 Hi andybarton, Take a look here AP interview with Dr Kaufmann. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Ellie Posted May 31, 2012 Share #182 Â Posted May 31, 2012 Perhaps this is related to Fujifilm? -The store I develop & scan film has some kind of minilab for the C41, the EXIF of the scanned files read: Â Camera brand: FUJI PHOTO FILM CO., LTD. Camera: SLP800 Â Is this a Fujifilm minilab? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted May 31, 2012 Share #183 Â Posted May 31, 2012 Yes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted May 31, 2012 Share #184 Â Posted May 31, 2012 Leicas have always been more expensive that similar cameras from other manufacturers. Â But not three times more expensive... Â ... and the sensor (film) was the same. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted May 31, 2012 Share #185 Â Posted May 31, 2012 But not three times more expensive... Â M7 v AE equipped M mount Voigtlander? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted May 31, 2012 Share #186 Â Posted May 31, 2012 M7 v AE equipped M mount Voigtlander? Â No. The R6(7)(8) compared to the top offerings from Canon or Nikon. Â We were talking about that, isn't? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamey Posted May 31, 2012 Share #187 Â Posted May 31, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hmmm.. could you please share the information about the precise number of analog Leica photographers? Â At this time probably more then Leica Digital users, with so many failures of Leica digital cams film users go about photographing and not worry about cracked sensors, shutter problems etc... ouch. Â Â Ken. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 1, 2012 Share #188 Â Posted June 1, 2012 Interesting how we always look at things from our own perspective. I think the proportion is fairly small by now., as evidenced by the explosive growth of tis forum since 2006. The number of visitors to the digital forums is about ten times as high as the number of the film forum, even if we attract the real enthusiasts. APUG is more quiet than it used to be... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted June 1, 2012 Share #189  Posted June 1, 2012 No. The R6(7)(8) compared to the top offerings from Canon or Nikon  $10,000 would have been very close to the cost of the current most expensive Canon dSLR.  Converted to dollars an EOS 1DS from Ffordes would be $8,600. So the $10,000 that Andy proposed would probably be less of a premium over that camera than the R6/7/8 had over the Canons and Nikons of their day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M9reno Posted June 1, 2012 Share #190 Â Posted June 1, 2012 The number of visitors to the digital forums is about ten times as high as the number of the film forum, even if we attract the real enthusiasts. APUG is more quiet than it used to be... Â What is an "analog photographer", or a"digital photographer" anyway? What if one goes out regularly with an M9, interchangeably with an M3 or Barnack and so on? Â Aside from the problem of defintion, the metric of number of forum hits is very compromised in its usefulness. One might even speculate that "analog photographers" might be much less likely to hang out on Internet fora! Â Anyway, it's never been, or very rarely is, about "digital v. analog." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticman Posted June 1, 2012 Share #191 Â Posted June 1, 2012 Interesting how we always look at things from our own perspective. I think the proportion is fairly small by now., as evidenced by the explosive growth of tis forum since 2006. The number of visitors to the digital forums is about ten times as high as the number of the film forum, even if we attract the real enthusiasts. Â 1. My own experience is that I see Leica film cameras on the street far more often than digital ones. In fact, I'm not sure I've seen any M9 'in action' other than the one I was using myself. I've seen literally dozens of people using film cameras. I accept this may not reflect other people's experience. Â 2. I have a screenshot on my home laptop taken a few weeks back, where visitors to the film forum numbered something like 40 or 41, against visitors to the digital fora combined (remember that includes M9, M8, X1, Fujifilm XPro-1, and post-processing etc) numbered around 68 or 69 (if memory serves me correctly). The numbers vary greatly at different times of day, I've found, suggesting a different balance of interest in different parts of the world. Â 3. The digital crowd are often here to discuss problems. This doesn't apply to film cameras, generally. Â 4. Film shooters are more interested in photography than discussing gear. They're especially less interested in discussing whether their M6 takes better or worse pictures than someone else's OM1 or F6. Â Â I actually think a lot of the 'romance' associated even with the current Leica brand is to do with their long and honorable tradition of great film cameras. The MP is an object of intense desire even among the most hardbitten digital gearheads of my acquaintance, - an aspirational dream - and if I turn up at a photoshoot carrying my Millennium M6, I've experienced the whole studio gathering round and fondling it while I look on rather nervously. I would say that Leica take a great risk if they abandon their heritage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted June 1, 2012 Share #192 Â Posted June 1, 2012 As long as there is some significant demand they have no reason to do so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 1, 2012 Share #193  Posted June 1, 2012 Quite true. However, speaking for myself, although I try and force myself to shoot some film from time to time - I am not insensitive to the special qualities of the medium. nor am I immune to nostalgia- in my experience I always prefer my M8/9 images. Nor can I recall seeing a film photographer in the wild the last three years. It may indeed be a geographical/cultural thing as well. What is an "analog photographer", or a"digital photographer" anyway? What if one goes out regularly with an M9, interchangeably with an M3 or Barnack and so on? Aside from the problem of defintion, the metric of number of forum hits is very compromised in its usefulness. One might even speculate that "analog photographers" might be much less likely to hang out on Internet fora!  Anyway, it's never been, or very rarely is, about "digital v. analog." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticman Posted June 1, 2012 Share #194 Â Posted June 1, 2012 Quite true. However, speaking for myself, although I try and force myself to shoot some film from time to time - I am not insensitive to the special qualities of the medium. nor am I immune to nostalgia- in my experience I always prefer my M8/9 images. Nor can I recall seeing a film photographer in the wild the last three years. It may indeed be a geographical/cultural thing as well. Â Haha! Nostalgia! Yes that's the reason people shoot film. Oh well, I'll let it go today, I have better things to do. Â Funnily enough, when I was in Amsterdam I ran into a guy using an M6. All I had with me (business trip) was my iPhone, so I said nothing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M9reno Posted June 1, 2012 Share #195 Â Posted June 1, 2012 Quite true. Â Thank you, Jaap. With apologies to all, the point that I have been trying to make in this long and probably needlessly confrontational thread is that, if people agree that it is not (and should not be) a matter of "film v. digital", then it is bad for *all of us* to receive contradictory or confusing messages on this point from the mothership. Â With best wishes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyedward Posted June 1, 2012 Share #196 Â Posted June 1, 2012 Am I alone in wanting to convert from digital to film, despite having never used it? I certainly doubt it! Hopefully, people in the same boat will help keep film alive. Â Along with the dominance of digital, perhaps the reliability of M film cameras has contributed to their dwindling sales. Its not necessary to buy a brand new film M in order to get a perfectly good camera - buy a secondhand one, have it CLA'ed when necessary, and it's good for a lifetimes use!! I imagine that far more used film M cameras change hands than new ones are ordered. Â My d3x is currently being repaired for the sole purpose of achieving a good sale price. The MP I'll order with the proceeds will hopefully be my contribution to keeping film M's in production. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted June 1, 2012 Share #197 Â Posted June 1, 2012 I don't know why the percentage of film users vs. digital shooters is relevant. What matters is not what people are using but what they are buying. Surely there are way more digital Ms being sold per year than film Ms. And my guess would be that digital users are buying most of the new lenses too. Â If M film cameras owners use their cameras for 20 more years it may not generate much revenue for Leica since they may not even buy a single new body over that period of time. However over the next 20 years there are likely to be quite a few new digital camera bodies to appeal to users and collectors. Â I do see how film users would be miffed at Kaufmann saying that film is dying out as if to imply they are living in the past. But clearly Leica is not designing new equipment for film users so why should that surprise anyone? If anything Leica is trying to get M film users to buy some of their new digital cameras. So Kaufman is not going to talk up the benefits of keeping your old cameras and shooting film. Isn't the main concept behind the MM to get b/w M film shooters to switch? Â This is basically the concept in all industries... to make new products that encourage you to replace your old stuff... necessary or not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted June 1, 2012 Share #198 Â Posted June 1, 2012 I can't remember the last time I saw someone in the street, or anywhere else, for that matter, using a Leica of ANY description. Except me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenPatterson Posted June 1, 2012 Share #199 Â Posted June 1, 2012 I can't remember the last time I saw someone in the street, or anywhere else, for that matter, using a Leica of ANY description. Except me. Â It's rare for me to walk around Hong Kong and NOT run into at least one other person shooting with an M Leica. Of course it helps to have 8 million people crammed into a space 1/4th the size of New York City. Â I was in Guangzhou last month waiting for a taxi and a guy in the queue was holding a new Billingham bag still wrapped in plastic and two silver lens boxes. We exchanged smiles and nods as he noticed my M9. Â I don't even bother to notice all the little PanaLeica models anymore. Â Dr. K said he wanted to expand the brand in China, and I would say whatever the company is doing is working. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrid Posted June 1, 2012 Share #200 Â Posted June 1, 2012 M7 v AE equipped M mount Voigtlander? Â I think something like the F5 or EOS 1-V make for a better comparison. These were pro cameras and the best these companies had to offer and a Leica was not three times the cost of either one of these. Â Voigtlander vs M7 is prosumer vs pro, so of course the price difference is enormous. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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