Which Leica Film Camera

[Beyder28]

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Hello all, I have been quietly watching and following the developments of the new M Monochrom and realized that for me or anyone else to really appreciate it and or be able to fully understand just how good it is compared to the Lwica film cameras, I have to be familiar with them first. I have always been a digital user and now would finally like to try out the film world. I currently have an M9-P. I know next to nothing about film and or film cameras. I read some posts on here about the MP, M6, M7 and would like to chose one of these (I'm open to the ones before those too). I don't want to do anything in the dark room and would like to go the slide film route (another topic i know little about) since that seems easiest. I am very intrigued by this because of all the whispers I hear about even the Monochrom not being able to favorably compare to the real film Leicas.

 

I read a lot of people like the M7 because it has better meter and auto exposure mode. Would this be a good choice for someone who wants to try the film route and stay with Leica? I know there are two different kinds but don't know the difference. What would you guys recommend? What sort of things should i consider and look out for when buying used (my intention)? As far as lenses go, I have a 50mm Lux ASPH, 28mm Cron ASPH, 85mm Rex, and 135mm Tele Elmar. All which I currently use with my M9-P. thanks in advance for the help.

[Michael Hiles]

All yous lenses will work fine on any M Leica.

 

Seems to me that an M7 might serve you well, since it will operate much like your M9P. If you want the real feel (i.e. no meter) - get a top condition M2.

[Beyder28]

All yous lenses will work fine on any M Leica.

 

Seems to me that an M7 might serve you well, since it will operate much like your M9P. If you want the real feel (i.e. no meter) - get a top condition M2.

 

Size too is important for me because that would be another advantage of some of the film cameras over the M9-P.

[earleygallery]

The M7 will feel most like your M9 to use. It also has framelines from 28mm with the standard finder (the M2 is 35mm widest and the M3 is 50mm).

 

But from a dealer with warranty and you can't go wrong.

[doolittle]

You can't go too far wrong with any of them.

If you want particular frame lines or a built in meter that will narrow your choices down a little.

By all means start with slide film, but be open to colour negative and black and white too. Developing b&w is much easier than you would think and doesn't require a dark room, just a light proof changing bag.

 

I would look at an M6 or an M4, but they all have their charms.

[kokoshawnuff]

At this point you can buy a really nice M7 for under $2500 (I've seen them at $1700 recently). You mentioned two different types, they are differentiated by the viewfinder and DX coding reader. After the MP was introduced in late 2002 the viewfinders on M7s adopted the MP viewfinder (so anything after early 2003 will have the updated viewfinder). The DX coding is a little more complex; the optical DX reader of today began in late 2006. So the problematic DX reader has not been used in 8 years but you'll still find a couple with it if you buy used. Ultimately it just means (as others have mentioned) you'd best be served purchasing from a dependable dealer that knows enough confirm the camera has the MP Viewfinder and the newer optical DX reader.

[luigi bertolotti]

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Size too is important for me because that would be another advantage of some of the film cameras over the M9-P.

 

If is REALLY important, think seriously to buy a M (*)... and a CL !!! CL isn't, roughly said, a "real" Leica (made in Japan by Minolta 37 years ago...) but is the most compact camera to host your nice set of lenses, is metered, is robust, is the top of pocketability for an interchangable lenses camera (and makes a VERY STRANGE look with the Summarex 85... ... indeed all of your lenses are "too big for the CL"... but generally is easy to find the CL complete with the excellent Summicron 40, very appreciable lens on M9 too)

 

 

(*) anyone has his favorites... I'd say, in order, M6 M4 M2 - the last two, in case, with the tiny and good VC meter

[NZDavid]

What a relief to talk about film cameras again after all the frenetic digital hoopla! You don't need to worry about film Leicas ever being outdated because they already are -- as long as you can still get film, they will also be capable of producing first class results.

 

I agree, any M would be fine, just make sure it is in best possible condition. For a classic feel, get an M3 and a handheld meter. That will give you a feel for manual exposure. You will also need a 28mm accessory finder. Or, as you like the M9-P, you might also like the MP. M6 and M7 are also excellent choices.

 

It will be worth trying a variety of film to see which you would prefer: Some suggestions: color slide (Fuji Provia 100F or Kodak E100G -- choice is becoming scarcer); color neg (Kodak Ektar 100, Fuji 400H), B+W (Ilford Pan F slow B+W, and a fast B+W like T-Max or Tri-X).

[Messsucherkamera]

But from a dealer with warranty and you can't go wrong.

No matter which film M body you decide on, this is very good advice. In my experience and in no particular order, Camera West, B&H and Tamarkin are outstanding Leica dealers to do business with.

 

If you have the resources, I would say get yourself a new MP. If cash is tight, a nice used M6 classic or M4-P (which has no on-board meter but is a great camera) will do the job and be both reliable and enjoyable to use and own.

 

Regarding E6 films, Velvia 100 is a great all-around choice as is Velvia 50 although 100 has a more exposure flexibility and a bit finer grain than the traditional Velvia 50.

[madNbad]

M7. DX coding and a classic film Leica feel. It'll be an easy transition from your M9 and there are plenty of them available. If you want to use a flash there are more options with the M7 than any other film Leica. It may not have the charm of an M3 but it has a brass top plate and currently a bargain.

[Jeff S]

You can of course start with any film you like, as your first goal may just be getting familiar with the feel and experience of using a film M. But if your ultimate goal, as implied by your initial post, is to compare results from the Monochrom to film, the only relevant comparison is b/w film.

 

And to further maintain apples to apples, since I presume you edit your digital photos (unless you only use JPEGs) via one of the common software packages (LR, CS, etc.), the darkroom work you seek to avoid will present a fairer comparison. Plus it will make a world of difference in your prints. It's not really that daunting, and can be done without major investment these days. Of course processing may be outsourced, but you miss out on a lot of learning...and fun...IMO.

 

Just my 2 cents. Oh, and I vote for the M7 to start, from a reputable dealer as others note.

 

Jeff

[sblitz]

Get the m4. Workhorse camera. Brass. No Meter. No batteries. All getting in tune with what you are doing. Make u better at digital

[!Nomad64]

What would you guys recommend? What sort of things should i consider and look out for when buying used (my intention)? As far as lenses go, I have a 50mm Lux ASPH, 28mm Cron ASPH, 85mm Rex, and 135mm Tele Elmar. All which I currently use with my M9-P. thanks in advance for the help.

 

Do you heavily rely on auto exposure? If so the M7 is the sole candidate fitting your needs.

 

If not my suggestion would be an M3. So far it's got the best rangefinder of all M series and it'll sure help you to better focusing your tricky lenses. The 'rex at 1.5 leaves very little margin for error and the 135mm pushes the rangefinder to its accuracy limits. Your 50 'lux would also benefit from that. Apart from the greater focusing accuracy, if it's your main lens then the M3 will reward you with the best possible viewfinder, large, bright and quite close to 1x.

As for your 28 you'll want to get yourself an external viewer.

 

An M3 in good working condition might be had for 500 Eur or more, depending on cosmetic conditions. Then if you want you might want to add a Leicameter on the top of that. I did and I'm happy with it but I'm also the first to admit that it spoils a bit the otherwise timeless elegant lines of the M3 and adds some weight and bulk.

 

If compactness is your thing then you might also consider a Barnack but this would force you to give up all your bayonet mount lenses. Just for the sake of information, surprisingly enough the late Barnacks unbelievably have more an accurate rangefinder than current digital Ms albeit looking through them might prove quite uncomfortable for they are barely larger than an ants nest hole.

Another point for the Barnacks is that they're quite cheap nowadays.

 

Hope this helps.

Bruno

[firststream]

I agree with Bruno. The M3 is most suitable to your longish lenses as long as the 28mm is used with an external viewfinder. Otherwise any M7, MP or M6 with the .85 viewfinder, if you are keen on a modern M-body with metering capability.

 

As to the smaller body, you'll find all film M-bodies much more comfortable in hand than the M9. They're much thinner, and have a feeling of elegance which is hard to describe, but it is immediately apparent when you hold one!

 

All the best.

[leicapages]

If is REALLY important, think seriously to buy a M (*)... and a CL !!! CL isn't, roughly said, a "real" Leica (made in Japan by Minolta 37 years ago...) but is the most compact camera to host your nice set of lenses, is metered, is robust, is the top of pocketability for an interchangable lenses camera

 

 

I would like to second that. The CL is a handy and small yet fully functional M style Leica camera, in particular if combined with its Summicron-C 40mm f/2.0 lens. Otherwise, basically any M camera will do nicely. If you want automatic exposure, go for the M7 - if you want manual the M6 and M6 TTL are excellent choices. These can be obtained for good prices.

[Jaybob]

M7 or M6TTL. Same larger shutter speed size knob and direction of adjustment as M9.

[thomasw_]

OP, as you state you like to use longer focal lengths, I would strongly urge you to consider the M with best VF for those FLs: the M3. Other Ms are better to use with 28/35 lenses, but most other Ms have lower magnification VFs than the M3 (@ .91x) to afford the use of the framelines for those wider FLs (e.g., .85x, .68x, 72x or even the .58x). Since focusing accuracy is based in large part on the extended base length of a RF, you will want to use your longer focal lengths on the M with the longest base length -- the M3.

 

If you want to use all of your lenses from 28 to 135 in one VF, I'd go the compromise route: get a M4-P with a .72x VF or some other .72x M with the 6 framelines (M6/MP/M7).

 

Other than the VF magnification, it seems to me that the second decision for you involves the choice between using an external or internal meter. In my experience, I have found using a hand held meter to be less fuss (I use it sparingly; at the start and only when the light changes -- bear in mind, I shoot BW negatives). In addition, using the internal meter on my MPs was often very distracting, especially in low light, as the red haze-causing, red arrow blinking LEDs would often cause me to second guess or uselessly urge me to change my aperture or shutter speed for miniscule gains. Worse, the internal meter could distract me while I was framing shots or even 'haze' my view while composing. As such, working with an external hand meter has freed me to compose at will and, to some extent, to become more sensitive to the light. FWIW I use a free light meter app on my iphone (which I have in my pocket or bag for other reasons as well). Sometimes I will use my sekonic l308s, too....but both work equally well in my use.

 

YMMV.

[Beyder28]

I would like to thank all of you guys so much for all the great advice and info. I figure if I'm gonna go for film, why not go all the way and get the real deal Leica experience with the M3? Obviously it's lack of auto exposure would be new for me but I like the idea that it will make me better. What hand held meter do you guys recommend and how do they work? Will the iPhone app suffice?

 

Also, which films should I go for? I'm still not very fluent in this department and would like to outsource if necessary (meaning if it would provide best results to go dark room). Thanks again to all.

[jaapv]

i just held a brand-new MP, black paint classic all the way. Sweeeeeet....:)

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[!Nomad64]

What hand held meter do you guys recommend and how do they work? Will the iPhone app suffice?

 

Also, which films should I go for? I'm still not very fluent in this department and would like to outsource if necessary (meaning if it would provide best results to go dark room). Thanks again to all.

 

Just a couple questions that lead to endless discussions, debating and tutoring... Let's try to give you at least some hints...

 

Lightmeter: initially you may want to stay on the cheap side, therefore get yourself either an used Leicameter MR/MR4 as it would be the most philological choice (it integrates with M3's speed dial but it'll need a battery adapter) or for about the same bucks a new Sekonic Twinmate L208. Skip the Leicameter MC or whatever meter sporting a selenium cell as selenium's performance degrade with passing time, therefore you'd get an unreliable tool.

I got both of them myself. I had the luck to find a Leicameter MR4 in pretty good cosmetic conditions CLAed and modified by Will van Maanen which perennially lives on the top of my M3 (the meter, not Will) and I recently bought the Sekonic for my IIIf just to flatter myself and check that my sunny 16 guessmetering are appropriate.

Then if one day you'll plunge deep into AA's zonal system you may want to get something better featuring spot metering.

 

Handheld hight meters work pretty much like the one integrated in any older not auto-everything camera (more modern ones have matrix/compensated/algorithm backed/devilish work in them) with the added bonus that they work in two modes, incident light and reflected light. The first one measures the light FALLING on your subject no matter the tonality of this latter, the second one measures the light REFLECTED by your subject, thus being influenced by the color/tonality of this latter. You have to take into consideration that they're calibrated to render an 18% gray therefore you'll need to calculate yourself due compensations depending from subject's tonality and/or the final result you want to achieve.

Brutally simplifying, the first one is more suitable when you can get close to the subject - portraits especially - the second one when you cannot - landscapes, street, etc.

My suggestion would be to read AA's "The negative" in which he exposes the principles behind his Zonal System.

 

Films: now that Agfa retired from photo business and Kodak is getting out of the game the easiest choice would be the Ilford HP5+ or Fuji Neopan 400. They'll ensure you the widest range of use and depending from the developer you'll choose - yes, you'll begin developing films yourself to not to have your negatives butchered by some jerk! - you'll get different results in terms of grain and tone range.

 

Then, depending from your needs you might want to consider either the Neopan 1600 for when it's really dark or, on the other end, a slower film to use in daylight such as 125 ISO or slower. Again, nowadays Ilford and Fuji rule but you might want to experiment with alternative niche products such as Adox CHS, Rollei Retro, etc.

 

Hope this helps,

Bruno