njleach Posted May 10, 2012 Share #241 Posted May 10, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Because even in 2012 there is still no higher resolution LCD panel in a 2.5" form factor? you're right - most manufacturers while keeping the same form factor have managed to utilise larger and higher resolution screens... Why do you need a higher res LCD to check a histogram and set menus? don't you ever sit down at the end of a day shooting or part way through to enjoy a coffee, tea, beer etc... and review your photos or show them to a friend? Wouldn't you rather look at them on a nice bright, higher-resolution display? Do you ever want to check after or during a portrait at f/1.4 or f/2 that you nailed focus on the eyes? There are many examples of where a higher resolution screen would be useful. For an $8,000 camera in 2012 to have the same screen they had with the launch of the M8 back in SEPTEMBER 2006 is laughable. 6 years and no progress in display technology? Come on... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 Hi njleach, Take a look here Leica Event May 10th – Live Coverage. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest Ming Rider Posted May 10, 2012 Share #242 Posted May 10, 2012 There have been several important improvements since the original M8. The shutter, for instance, the format, compression of DNG files, manual lens selection, frames accuracy... But, basically, it is the same product. In my opinion the M9M and Hermes edition are the last assumible iterations. This is the end of a long evolutive process. I agree. The M10, whenever it appears, must take the Rangefinder principle to the next level. Anything else will just be rebadging. Personally I don't see how the M can be improved and remain faithfull to the concept and this I believe is Leica's biggest headache, risking altering the concept, without offending their core customers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidigital Posted May 10, 2012 Share #243 Posted May 10, 2012 It's because we care about the Leica brand. Care that it improves. Care that it pushes the boundaries of what's possible. Care that it doesn't fall by the wayside like thousands of other one reveared names (not just cameras). If we didn't care, we'd buy a Nikon, Canon, Fuji etc or any other multitude of mass produced, soul less, micro engineered, short lived models. Exactly. And that is why, if you've been through the ups and downs of using Leica digital products since the M8 and the DMR introductions, you realize that patience is key. They are a niche player with niche products designed and engineered with limited resources. It might take awhile to get there, but they do eventually end up producing some interesting camera systems. Again, this is probably the last iteration of the M9 (which has been a fantastic success for Leica) until the new model is most certainly announced at Photokina. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrism Posted May 10, 2012 Share #244 Posted May 10, 2012 I think it's funny that now the camera is announced we hear complaints about the LCD, when before it was announced there were so many posts saying it shouldn't have an LCD at all! The other point is that after the M8 came out, there were rumours of a monochrome version that many of us would have been happy to buy. There was interest then, and it doesn't surprise me at all that there is interest now, and in the meantime we have a FF sensor as well. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted May 10, 2012 Share #245 Posted May 10, 2012 M9 rebadging? People who don't see the obvious superiority of the MM noise wise should update their glasses urgently. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted May 10, 2012 Share #246 Posted May 10, 2012 I see all the comments about money and functionality and have to laugh The Leica M is as much an art object as a camera. It enables working in such a way that some people, not all,. can produce pictuers that move them with a tool that delights Pure material justification is absurb. A D800 or 5D III with a decent lens walks all over the tech specs of the M9 and indeed can produce better, pictures in the right hands. For that matter an xpro-1, minus the DOF play, can master the M9 at everything. The M digital series is a beautiful piece. The reasons for buying it are the same as the reasons for buying a patek philippe over an omega. It gives some people the pictures they want with the tactile pleasue they want. If you don't get it you don't get it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth3kpl Posted May 10, 2012 Share #247 Posted May 10, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) This caught my eye I am intrigued by it though and I'm looking forward to seeing what people do with it. (the M-Monochrom not the Praktica) The 50 APO might seem over the top now but who knows what resolving power future sensors might have (albeit in cameras made by fujifilm/canikon with the lens mounted via an adaptor ) Pete (I've 40 rolls of film arriving tomorrow ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ming Rider Posted May 10, 2012 Share #248 Posted May 10, 2012 M9 rebadging? People who don't see the obvious superiority of the MM noise wise should update their glasses urgently. I agree, though my spec's were all the rage 3 years ago. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DES Posted May 10, 2012 Share #249 Posted May 10, 2012 I have to say.. I too am very disappointed. Clever marketing perhaps using the 10th to engender the M10 hype and of course maximum publicity,if they introduced the M10 at the same as the M Mono then the latter would have been overlooked, this way we are all talking about the merits or otherwise of the B&W.....and there is no such thing as bad publicity. BUT. I can't help feeling used, not to mention the poor people that have travelled miles to attend this non event. And as for the price of this and the new lens, well Leica obviously believe people will pay anything for the Leica name. Are they in danger of believing that they can do no wrong? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mongrelnomad Posted May 10, 2012 Share #250 Posted May 10, 2012 And unlike the JPEGs you get out of the M9 these are truly indicative of what the M Monochrom can deliver. Raw files still have their uses but from a quality perspective you could just as well shoot JPEG only (which I would never do with the M9) Well isn't the only variable contrast? Makes sense... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrid Posted May 10, 2012 Share #251 Posted May 10, 2012 I wonder if there is a big improvement in dynamic range. It better deliver at least 12 stops or more. The images sure look sharp and the tonality looks very nice. Are the files 16bit? Any news on weather sealing? It's supposed to be a pro camera after all. How big is the RAW buffer? Are we still stuck at 8 frames? Same processor as the M8/M9 or did it get all new electronics? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ming Rider Posted May 10, 2012 Share #252 Posted May 10, 2012 Any news on weather sealing? It's supposed to be a pro camera after all. How big is the RAW buffer? Are we still stuck at 8 frames? Same processor as the M8/M9 or did it get all new electronics? I could certainly say with certain certainty that it will be the same camera with a different sensor. Weather sealing ? Pah ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted May 10, 2012 Share #253 Posted May 10, 2012 There are no big changes from the M9; the electronics is basically the same, the raw files have the same bit depth etc.. The difference is in the sensor. Due to its increased base sensitivity of ISO 320, dynamic range increases by one stop at the same ISO setting. There is also a difference in the way the histogram is calculated: it is based on raw data rather than the JPEG preview. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Valdemar Posted May 10, 2012 Share #254 Posted May 10, 2012 Oh, come on, this is the Emperor's New Clothes. This is just an M9 with the exact same sensor, with a little twiddling. Apple would never botch an announcement and media event like this (at least when Steve Jobs was alive). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LVSBB6 Posted May 10, 2012 Share #255 Posted May 10, 2012 Steve just took some sample shots with M9-M; ISO10,000 is fully useable to my eye: The Leica M9 Monochrome has been announced! 1st shots! | STEVE HUFF PHOTOS Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted May 10, 2012 Share #256 Posted May 10, 2012 It's not all bad. At least we know that the M9 sensor is still available. In addition there may even be an upgrade program to make your M9 an M9M. I have two M9s and I'd seriously consider upgrading one of them to get the advantages of the B&W sensor (which I think are pretty significant if you're a B&W shooter). It's not a camera for everyone. Nor is the colour version. But for those die hard B&W film shooters this may just be the camera they didn't know they wanted. If Leica put in a sensor that pops out plastic images at 20000000000 ISO just like Canikony do, what's to differentiate them from the rest of the market? Leica is a niche product and I think they know it. For their future they're probably better off exploiting that niche, just like Fuji do. As for the X2. What were they thinking? Gordon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Mitchum Posted May 10, 2012 Share #257 Posted May 10, 2012 The M digital series is a beautiful piece. The reasons for buying it are the same as the reasons for buying a patek philippe over an omega. Oh good grief. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sp12 Posted May 11, 2012 Share #258 Posted May 11, 2012 If Leica put in a sensor that pops out plastic images at 20000000000 ISO just like Canikony Gordon Interesting assertion given the (IMO clearly) superior noise performance of the D800. Which has twice the MP and a CFA. I wonder if there is a big improvement in dynamic range. It better deliver at least 12 stops or more.The images sure look sharp and the tonality looks very nice. Are the files 16bit? Any news on weather sealing? It's supposed to be a pro camera after all. How big is the RAW buffer? Are we still stuck at 8 frames? Same processor as the M8/M9 or did it get all new electronics? What are you trying to do? Shoot motorsports in the rain? Kids outside? Massive landscapes that need the DR? Seems absurd tbh. When shooting film many would die to have hundreds of images at ISO 10000 without having to switch rolls. Why compare to a D800 or whatever -- is 4FPS really going to improve your photography? Is better IQ really important? Leica's aren't made for such mindless "photography", the M serves an expression and extension of the soul. All of you guys fighting after "bit depth" and "resolution" just because that's what the latest Nikon has are missing the point, the soul of the M. It's an art peice as much as a camera. An icon and luxury. I don't expect my mechanical rolex to compare to my phone getting GPS timecodes, but that's not why you buy a rolex, is it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrid Posted May 11, 2012 Share #259 Posted May 11, 2012 There are no big changes from the M9; the electronics is basically the same, the raw files have the same bit depth etc.. The difference is in the sensor. Due to its increased base sensitivity of ISO 320, dynamic range increases by one stop at the same ISO setting. There is also a difference in the way the histogram is calculated: it is based on raw data rather than the JPEG preview. Danke. A one stop increase is a lot less than I was hoping for. But then again it basically is the same sensor as used in the M9. Let's see what happens at Photokina. Hopefully the rumored new CMOS sensor for the M10 does better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Valdemar Posted May 11, 2012 Share #260 Posted May 11, 2012 Leica's aren't made for such mindless "photography", the M serves an expression and extension of the soul. All of you guys fighting after "bit depth" and "resolution" just because that's what the latest Nikon has are missing the point, the soul of the M. It's an art peice as much as a camera. An icon and luxury. I don't expect my mechanical rolex to compare to my phone getting GPS timecodes, but that's not why you buy a rolex, is it? Why do you buy a Rolex? Extension of the soul? Or the wrist? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.