Michael Geschlecht Posted February 24, 2012 Share #21 Â Posted February 24, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hello Everybody, Â Bill is a justifiably well repected member of this Forum whose advice should always be considered seriously. Â However: Â The first example he used in Reason #5 of Post #13 of this Thread is seriously in error. Â Best Regards, Â Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 Hi Michael Geschlecht, Take a look here shutter at 1/8 sharp results?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
tobey bilek Posted February 24, 2012 Share #22 Â Posted February 24, 2012 Post 13, rule 5 is correct. That is what makes the winter Olympic event of x country skiing and rifle marksmanship challenging. There are multiple cycles of doing both. Â The sex I can`t say. Experimentation is in order. Â Wood does work as tripod materal, but you will not like to carry it. It is pretty and does not freeze or boil your hands. Put bicycle handlebar tape on CF. Â Nullify a tripod by extending the center column. Â Hanging a weight is less value than you might imagine. I have seen tests done on this. If the pod is marginal, the best recourse is a better pod. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted February 24, 2012 Share #23  Posted February 24, 2012 Just ran off a few shots with my Noctilux.....  100% ok at 1/15  About half at 1/8 are acceptable....  Below that the hit rate is pretty low.....  I do a lot of archery and some rifle target shooting.... but even I would not expect much joy at 1/8 .....  I tend to use a nifty little Manfrotto Pocket Support these days .... I've replaced the screw with a slightly longer one so I can attach it without taking off my leather half case which has a strategically placed hole in the bottom Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/173418-shutter-at-18-sharp-results/?do=findComment&comment=1936667'>More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 25, 2012 Share #24  Posted February 25, 2012 Hello Everybody, Bill is a justifiably well repected member of this Forum whose advice should always be considered seriously.  However:  The first example he used in Reason #5 of Post #13 of this Thread is seriously in error.  Best Regards,  Michael  #2 of # 13 is rather doubtful to. One glass of alcohol will steady your hand. So much in fact that it is considered doping in competition shooting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted February 25, 2012 Share #25 Â Posted February 25, 2012 Again for the fact-deniers see: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/1986627-post16.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted February 25, 2012 Share #26 Â Posted February 25, 2012 And another made a f/.95 - actual size from a heavy crop to actual pixels. http://www.digoliardi.net/actual-pixuals.jpg The blooming is from early morning dew. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Negative Posted February 25, 2012 Share #27 Â Posted February 25, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) If your technique is in order and you've not had too much coffee or beer - definitely. I've shot at slower than that and had good results. Too much coffee leads to motion blur, too much beer leads to focus hunting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted February 25, 2012 Share #28 Â Posted February 25, 2012 For me it depends on the lens used. Wide angle is much easier than a 135. For me it is not an overall-for-every-lens-the-same shutter speed. It varies a lot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaques Posted February 25, 2012 Share #29  Posted February 25, 2012 I think most people can claim to be able to hold a camera still at 1/8th. Can they claim to do it all the time though, or do it to order every time, I don't think so. There is bound to be a high failure rate which gets swept under the carpet. So if you want to shoot slow shutter speeds on a regular basis use a tripod and remove the failure rate altogether. The photograph is more important than making a contest out of how you support the damned camera. Steve  a tripod is the sure option- but there is a great deal of photography that cannot be achieved with a tripod- something happens- at best you have 3 seconds to react... then it's gone. On those occasions when you do have the time tripods have a tendency to lock you into a given view/position point- making it harder to look around and think out of the box- searching for the best/most interesting angle.  This discussion reminds me why higher ISO is desirable. I understand some people don't need high ISO- and I know in the past they didn't have it at all- but I cannot understand anyone who wouldn't want it (as an option) if they could have it. It certainly doesn't add to the cameras complexity. It's great to be able to get a few more stops for a little DOF- or to be able to avoid motion blur in dark settings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted February 25, 2012 Share #30 Â Posted February 25, 2012 Jacques, yes of course a tripod can't be used all the time. But whenever the question is asked about 'how slow can you shoot' it becomes a contest without any context regarding failure rate. I have made a sharp hand held photograph at 1/4sec but its not realistic to promote it as anything other than luck. If a situation arises you need to try whatever it takes to make the photograph, but you shouldn't take pure luck that you did it once and then make a plan out of it, people get the wrong impression that relying on luck is the skillful thing to do, when it is the opposite. Â Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 25, 2012 Share #31 Â Posted February 25, 2012 Tripods are of course indispensable in some cases, but a pita to take with you. It is often possible to improve sharpness by using whatever comes to hand. Lean against a wall, stabilize the camera against a lamppost., set the camera on a dustbin, etc. It is not a contest of getting the slowest speed freehand, it is about nailing the shot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipus Posted February 25, 2012 Share #32  Posted February 25, 2012 In the marines, we teach our soldiers to remember "SARA", each letter representing the Swedish word for (very loosely translated) position, directing, aiming, firing (ställning, anläggning, riktning, avfyrning). Plus to keep their breathing in check. Clearly, running, jumping and other physical exertion (sex is not tried before the shooting exercises afaik) affects the hit rate.  In my experience, both from firing various shorter and longer weapons and from using different types of cameras, breathing technique is very important. There is a point just at the end of the exhalation, typically half a second or shorter, where the body becomes completely still. That's when to take the shot. One can chance it at the top of the inhalation, too, but that is much more risky.  When I was on a mission hunting pirates our "combat camera" employed the same technique to ensure sharp photos from the vessel we were on.  My own experience is that I can quite easily get sharp photos with 1/8 using a rangefinder and I am a slim, tall person (note I don't have an M9 but film Ms with various 50s). The weight, mass and size of a bulky SLR with lens will have a detrimental effect on the "keeper" rate as compared to the results from a rangefinder. I find the rule 1/focal length for shutter speed to be much more valid for SLR use than for rangefinder use (ymmv). In Africa photographing wildlife I would on occasion be able to get sharp shots with 1/100 or below on a 400mm but the keeper results improved dramatically with 1/200 and were always sharp at 1/500.  Edit: When in doubt, take several photos.  Philip Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJP Posted February 25, 2012 Share #33 Â Posted February 25, 2012 Statistics - we need statistics. Â Anyway, if you are lucky even 1 second handheld can work (more or less), see here: Â Â This is not something I would claim to being reliable/bullet proof. Luckily the cat was in a low dynamic range. Not anymore - he(it) is very mobile nowadays. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipus Posted February 25, 2012 Share #34  Posted February 25, 2012 Perhaps I should start a separate thread for this but it really does concern this issue.  Tom Abrahamson writes regarding the "soft releases" that:  After some training you can gain as much as 1 stop in slow speed shooting and with some luck, up to 1.5 stops. It is possible to shoot at 1/8 sec with a 50mm lens and get sharp images. Wider lenses work even slower, down to ½ sec.  In various "publish pix of your camera" threads, I've seen lots of cameras with these soft releases. How are they? Do they help keeping the camera still when pressing the shutter? Is there a difference between the small and the big soft releases?  I'm in two minds because after all they're just an extension of the shutter release. Would be really interesting to hear people's views. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Negative Posted February 25, 2012 Share #35 Â Posted February 25, 2012 I can't stand those "softie" things. At least not on digital Ms or even the M7. It just makes the release feel "notchy" because of the various detents. I'm sure it works, and as claimed - but probably on older bodies. Â Plus, if you have a cheap one (e.g. made of aluminum) it'll freak you out that it might snap off in your cable release socket... Or at least have to remove it if you use a cable release. Â Then there's the possibility of firing the shutter accidentally or causing the meter to go on if you don't turn off the camera before stuffing it in your bag. Â Mine's in a drawer and will likely stay there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted February 25, 2012 Share #36 Â Posted February 25, 2012 I shoot a fair amount from boats - tripods don't help. The only thing that works is hand-holding and trying to move so that the subject stays still relative to the camera - shutter speeds beyond the reciprocal of the focal length give rise to a high failure rate, but every so often you get one that makes the large number of failures worthwhile - guaranteeing which one is near impossible though. My record to date for 'acceptable' sharpness was 1 s @ f/1.4 at 1000ISO on a Canon 1DS using a 24mm lens. It wasn't perfectly sharp but achieved the desired result (squid jigger glows beyond the horizons south of NZ). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 25, 2012 Share #37  Posted February 25, 2012 I can't stand those "softie" things. At least not on digital Ms or even the M7. It just makes the release feel "notchy" because of the various detents. I'm sure it works, and as claimed - but probably on older bodies. Plus, if you have a cheap one (e.g. made of aluminum) it'll freak you out that it might snap off in your cable release socket... Or at least have to remove it if you use a cable release.  Then there's the possibility of firing the shutter accidentally or causing the meter to go on if you don't turn off the camera before stuffing it in your bag.  Mine's in a drawer and will likely stay there.  Not too difficult to remove - easier than a broken screw from an implant... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted February 25, 2012 Share #38 Â Posted February 25, 2012 [...]Nullify a tripod by extending the center column. Â I remove the center column if there is one, or tap and screw it for bolts to disable it. The big wood tripod never had a center column. Â Hanging a weight is less value than you might imagine. I have seen tests done on this. If the pod is marginal, the best recourse is a better pod. Â I thought I was so clever when I took one of those large dog anchors, screwed into the ground and put a tight bungie cord to the base of the tripod head. It sang in the wind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted February 25, 2012 Share #39 Â Posted February 25, 2012 I shoot a fair amount from boats - tripods don't help. Â Well, here is one very expensive solution. Scroll down. Airship Solutions - Services Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oculux Posted February 29, 2012 Share #40 Â Posted February 29, 2012 It will never be crazy sharp but it's quite possible to get usable 1/4 and 1/2 second shots in the bag. Â This is one aspect I love with the M9P and 50 1.4 combo. Indoors and low light I can get very nice shots at 1/15 and 1/8 that just aren't possible with a SLR. The only thing that matches and exceeds this is my EP3 with image stabilization. 1/8 and 1/4 are easy wih it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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