Camera suggestions

[elgenper]

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.... I'm deciding to use the same amount of money instead of buying a d-lux 5 get my first Canon DSLR. The d-lux 5 is a good camera but for the price i feel it may not be worth it just for a digital camera.

...

 

Afraid that, like me, you go for an unnecessarily expensive road to the Leica...

 

I sold a Canon dSLR outfit (at great loss) to get the then new Digilux 2 instead (at great photographic gain). A few years ago, I was fool enough to get into a rather big Nikon dSLR outfit that I sold (at even greater loss) to get the M 9 with just two lenses.

 

At last, I feel I´ve arrived....

 

(And I do have a D-Lux 4. It is quite a good companion to the M 9. And so is the Digilux 2, after all these years...).

[Guest happytogger]

And thank you everyone for ur wonderful contribution. Have to say I'm deciding to use the same amount of money instead of buying a d-lux 5 get my first Canon DSLR. The d-lux 5 is a good camera but for the price i feel it may not be worth it just for a digital camera.

Once again thank you very much for all your thoughts and suggestions. Who knows, maybe one day when I saved enough and have much more experience in photography I might get actually get myself a M system camera. Fingers cross.

Nat

 

Hi Nat

 

This may sound strange, when I have a Leica in my hands

I somehow feel connected with the heritage of Leica.

I somehow become aware of art taken through Leicas for so many decades.

I then want to try to do justice and try to make some art.

 

With slrs, dslrs I just been in more snapshot mode.

 

As a starting point, whilst the c-lux, d-lux, v-lux are branded Leica, a digital Leica with the spirit of Leica is the Digilux2.

It will not give the speed and shallow dof a Canon dslr nor interchangeable lenses, yet its handling & magic is transparent.

[Nathalie]

Afraid that, like me, you go for an unnecessarily expensive road to the Leica...

 

I sold a Canon dSLR outfit (at great loss) to get the then new Digilux 2 instead (at great photographic gain). A few years ago, I was fool enough to get into a rather big Nikon dSLR outfit that I sold (at even greater loss) to get the M 9 with just two lenses.

 

At last, I feel I´ve arrived....

 

(And I do have a D-Lux 4. It is quite a good companion to the M 9. And so is the Digilux 2, after all these years...).

 

Hi Nat

 

This may sound strange, when I have a Leica in my hands

I somehow feel connected with the heritage of Leica.

I somehow become aware of art taken through Leicas for so many decades.

I then want to try to do justice and try to make some art.

 

With slrs, dslrs I just been in more snapshot mode.

 

As a starting point, whilst the c-lux, d-lux, v-lux are branded Leica, a digital Leica with the spirit of Leica is the Digilux2.

It will not give the speed and shallow dof a Canon dslr nor interchangeable lenses, yet its handling & magic is transparent.

 

I do get where both of you are coming from, believe me I would love nothing more than calling myself a Leica owner but at this point in time where money is an issue (I'm still a student) and experience is lacking, and while spending money on expensive things a.k.a Leica, I have to greatly consider its pros and cons.

True that 10 20 years down the line I might end up buying several dSLRs and selling it all away and one fine day fulfilling my wildest dreams come true and buying my first Leica but at least I would feel that I have reached that level in my life where I know I deserve the Leica, have more experience in photography (I hope) and have the appreciation of the Leica cameras better.

[Digitom]

Just to pick up on a couple of your points....

 

You can pick every point, but maybe you have no argument against. Nice rhetoric...:p

 

the Leica version PanaLeica's do not produce better image quality. Fact. They are identical cameras. If you disagree please post photographic proof. In all the years that people have spouted this rubbish no one has bothered to publish side by side images to prove it. Panasonic wouldn't settle for a 2nd grade product either.

 

I do not want to and I am tired of discussing facts many people already know, the facts are clear, and you as a professional should know it. But if you know better, I will not change you mind (I guess it will not be successful either). Such kind of discussions HERE are OT to OP.

 

Where have I compared the X1 to the M9?

 

Again, the OP get an advice from me. You gave her an advice - and our opinions are different in serveral cases, thats it! I think sho shlud decide. That is the old story: 2 experts and 3 opinions.

 

 

Again, the OP has asked for advice. It's clear from her post that she isn't very knowledgable on the Leica range and she has said she's not interested in the M. Only the X1 will offer her any real difference/improvement to her Canon (ignoring the older Digilux cameras).

 

Interesting that I have to point out the topics of your own posting, you wrote:

 

"Next is the X1 which is closer to a Leica M in general terms, and would offer improvements over your Canon in terms of image quality with a larger sensor, but it has a fixed lens."

 

Was posting #6.

 

So if I understand right you mentioned the X1 is closer to M? My english isn´t so bad that I have misunderstood that. If so, I say sorry, but I read out of your posting that you bring X1 close to M in IMage quality.

I think X1 is not close to M in any case as D-Lux 5 is not close to X1. These are 3 different pair of shoes, and of course in there price class each is the best.

 

And finally that is, whay MAY helpful for a beginner: HERE; in a LEICA Forum, comparing the Leica cams and giving advica, and not Canon to Leica or Nikon to SONY.

 

Thats it.

[lct]

...And finally that is, whay MAY helpful for a beginner: HERE; in a LEICA Forum, comparing the Leica cams and giving advica, and not Canon to Leica or Nikon to SONY...

What about honesty here? If i think that a Canon or a Nikon camera is better for the OP, should i give her different answers on the Leica, Canon or Nikon forums?

[Digitom]

What about honesty here? If i think that a Canon or a Nikon camera is better for the OP, should i give her different answers on the Leica, Canon or Nikon forums?

 

Oh my god, how boring this discussion is!

Once again again:

 

OP asked for beginners advice in a Leica forum (if this is no Leica forum, just tell me, but - maybe L forum stands for Leica, hm? I am sure, I am very sure!)

 

So I recommend which Leica camera is the best for her.

 

If you recommend another brand, I have to ask why you use a Leica?

Oh, maybe you are at the Olymp of photography? I feel soooooooooo sorry!

Sure, then a Leica is nothing for a beginner. A Leica is only for the exclusive club of the best of the best of photo-enthusiasts.

 

I hope now it is clear, otherwise just tell me in which language I should answer so one understand (suaheli? esperanto?)....

 

No question of honesty, just a question of LOGIC

[lct]

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I happen to use many camera brands and your logic, as you call it, is not the same as mine certainly.

[Digitom]

I happen to use many camera brands and your logic, as you call it, is not the same as mine certainly.

 

And I hope very much that my logic is different from yours!

[lct]

Sounds quite obvious.

[earleygallery]

I also use other cameras than just Leica, and it may shock you to hear this, but I like some of those others just as much!

 

The OP came across as a bit of a novice and I offered what I consider to be honest and helpful advice. Clearly it was on the right track as the OP bought a 'real' camera instead.

 

I said the X1 offered the closest Leica experience and quality to an M. It does given it's fixed focal length lens and larger (than others) sensor.

 

Sorry I don't understand what your issue is.

[Digitom]

I also use other cameras than just Leica, and it may shock you to hear this, but I like some of those others just as much!

 

The OP came across as a bit of a novice and I offered what I consider to be honest and helpful advice. Clearly it was on the right track as the OP bought a 'real' camera instead.

 

I said the X1 offered the closest Leica experience and quality to an M. It does given it's fixed focal length lens and larger (than others) sensor.

 

Sorry I don't understand what your issue is.

 

 

Hello James,

 

Really no problem. You gave your advices and I did.

You did some critic the way I did my advice and I answeres to explain.

OK, still differences. But I will not make a big thing out of that.

I think Nathalie has now many informations. That is the most important thing.

[IkarusJohn]

I do get where both of you are coming from, believe me I would love nothing more than calling myself a Leica owner but at this point in time where money is an issue (I'm still a student) and experience is lacking, and while spending money on expensive things a.k.a Leica, I have to greatly consider its pros and cons.

True that 10 20 years down the line I might end up buying several dSLRs and selling it all away and one fine day fulfilling my wildest dreams come true and buying my first Leica but at least I would feel that I have reached that level in my life where I know I deserve the Leica, have more experience in photography (I hope) and have the appreciation of the Leica cameras better.

 

I'm not sure where you are going with this.

 

There is caché with the Leica name, no doubt. But that is something different from what you want to achieve from your photography.

 

Leaving buzz words and a lot of hairsplitting and sensitive egos on this forum aside, Leica photography, particularly with an M, is different from anything else. That's just the way it is - you get very little assistance from the camera, but when you get things right the results are sublime. That is probably because the camera makes you take your time and think more about what you're doing.

 

I spent about 30 years using film SLRs, and chasing my passion for photography, but the switch to an M has been phenomenal for me. I would never go to a dSLR.

 

So, for you. If you see yourself going for an M camera in the long term, I suggest you don't waste your money on a dSLR, or a point and shoot compact. I think you would find this deeply dissatisfying.

 

I suggest you take your time, shop around, and find yourself a second hand M8, and a 35 mm lens, also second hand. It actually doesn't matter which lens, provided it has an M mount. A second hand M8 is probably about as cheap as it's going to get - maybe you'll see a price drop when the M10, and the new Leica mirrorless system are released later this year, but it probably won't make too much difference.

 

You will then have your feet under the table, and as the years go by, you can add to or change your camera bodies and lenses. Finding a lens will be a challenge, but look around. I'm sure you'll find something.

 

If the M8 is beyond your resources, then look at one of the digital backs than can have M adapters fitted (NEX 5n, NEX 7 & Rich GXR with A12 mount) - you then have a camera which gets you on the road, you can add Leica or Zeiss lenses when you can afford them, and you can then add a Leica M body later.

 

I wouldn't go down the dSLR route. They are big, they offer lots of functions (which often perform badly), and you're heading into a system which you profess not to be interested in the long run. While those cameras are big and offer gee-whizz options, the sensor is no bigger, and often smaller than on an X1, and the lenses not as good.

 

Cheers

John

[IkarusJohn]

As an aside, there is an M8 for sale here for USD 2,700 in good condition (a ding in the casing, but serviced by Leica in Solms in Feb 2011).

 

Let me know if you're interested.

 

Cheers

John

[NZDavid]

Just caught up with the forum after some time out of town and spotted this.... Nat, if not too late and you are still deciding, may I throw another option into the mix? How about a compact interchangeable lens camera such as one of the Panasonic GF cameras, Ricoh GXR, or Olympus Pen? There are also a few others around.

 

These cameras are smaller than a DSLR but have several advantages over a small-sensor compact like the D-Lux 5 -- which is an excellent and highly versatile camera, btw.

 

Like the X1, the cameras I mentioned above also have larger sensors. This makes for better overall quality, especially at higher ISO settings.

 

But, most important, they also have the advantage of interchangeable lenses -- which includes some Leica lenses. Limited DOF and a more blurry background is a big plus for portraits. You can still take portraits with the D-Lux 5 but you will usually get an ultra sharp background so they can be a challenge.

 

Anyway, just a thought. Hope this helps.

 

Best,

 

David

 

David Killick | Freelance Journalist and Photographer

[Guest]

Maybe wait with your decision untill the G1X is available.

It's a matter of weeks.

Don't know where you live, but if there's no important photo opportunity or holiday planned in January, the weather doesn't make one rush outside and snap away.

The G1X (along with the NEX 5N) are the beginning of the end of entry level SLRs imo.

 

Our 14 year old got a J1 for Christmas. Her wish is: no more missed or fuzzy shots and a zoom lens. My additional one: no more fuzzy iphone pics or with long waiting times between ugly flash pops.

She chose the color (black, since it is a serious camera ) and her birthday wish is now a phone, that takes the SD card.

M setting with 1/125 and max. apperture and continuous AF&drive at AUTO ISO is just brilliant in this soundless camera.