farnz Posted December 24, 2011 Share #21 Posted December 24, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) ... Take a good serviced M8.2 only if you cannot afford the better M9. ... or if you want to shoot infrared in digital. Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 24, 2011 Posted December 24, 2011 Hi farnz, Take a look here Did Ken Rockwell a M8 hater?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest Posted December 25, 2011 Share #22 Posted December 25, 2011 Of course, if you are specialized on infrared photography. But I am missing the special correction dot for infrared photography on most (all?) Leica M-lenses. My old Canon-FD-lenses have such dots - or is this not necessary for M? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted December 25, 2011 Share #23 Posted December 25, 2011 Of course, if you are specialized on infrared photography. But I am missing the special correction dot for infrared photography on most (all?) Leica M-lenses. My old Canon-FD-lenses have such dots - or is this not necessary for M? If the lens is missing the "R", in my experience the infinity focus for infrared for most lenses is between the F/5.6 and f/8 marks but more towards f/8. Focus on a particular object can be achieved by adding the offset 'distance' between the infinity mark and infrared infinity to the visible light focal point. Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 25, 2011 Share #24 Posted December 25, 2011 :confused:This is a very puzzling post to me. The M8 did not die, because of whatever, it was simply succeeded by the next as any industrial product does. As for sales, the M8 sold so unexpectedly well and beyond any prediction that it put the company back on its feet. As for poor initial reception, please explain why the waiting lists for the M8 ran into many months for nearly two years on end? I think you are confusing the flexibility of production by a high- volume automated process with the hand-assembling by skilled craftsmen. Anyway the idea that bringing out a new model means that the predecessor "died" because of imagined flaws involves a strange denial of product cycles. It is interesting to note Mr Daniel said in 2007 " of course, after the M8 will come the M9" , and that various Leica officials stated recently that a product cycle of "about three years" seems "reasonable". The M8 was dropped from the production line for the exact same reasons M9 production hasn't been able to keep up with demand for a sustained length of time. Leica is a small company. Leica has limited operating capital. Leica has to cope within a certain market potentia for digital rangefinders and sustaining multiple cameras and camera production lines for the dRF market is a complex and risky application of capital attempting to sevice what is ultimately a niche market. M8 died for a lack of capital, died for a poor initial reception, and died to keep from undercutting sales of the M9. Leica already had a near death experience making both M and C model rangefinders: kind of makes a company a bit hesitant about climbing out on the upper/lower tier product limb again. Just my opinion, might not be valid in california, your mileage may vary, Lucky Strike means Fine Tobacco. :-D Richard in Michigan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted December 25, 2011 Share #25 Posted December 25, 2011 The M8 was dropped from the production line for the exact same reasons M9 production hasn't been able to keep up with demand for a sustained length of time. ... Richard, This appears to be a non-sequitor. Any manufacturer wants demand of his product to outstrip supply and the only reason he would drop a product in such a situation is if he was forced to by unavailability of raw materials. Secondly, I'm not aware that M9's are unable to keep up with demand now that they're over the initial, unexpected demand spike; most Leica dealers can supply an M9 now if you want one. The M9-P is a different case because it's still in its initial demand spike. Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJP Posted December 25, 2011 Share #26 Posted December 25, 2011 Most people (98%) are not picky about photography. You know, "details." See attached image for clarification. Exactly. Nice cat is it yours? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wstotler Posted December 25, 2011 Share #27 Posted December 25, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Nice cat is it yours? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shade Posted December 26, 2011 Share #28 Posted December 26, 2011 I think Ken just says what he wants to say. And I think it should be normal, in a sense that afterall its his own website. He can even say that the leica saved his life and changed his mind about commiting suicide because Leica is so good, or something. I visit his site every now and them because despite whatever personal opinions he has, his technical data and sample images are quite resourceful especially when I want to buy some old leica lens somewhere.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestMichigan Posted December 26, 2011 Share #29 Posted December 26, 2011 Dear Jaapv and Farnz, I'm not sure where either of you has pointed out the hole in my thesis that Leica is a niche maker of expensive photographic products and as such has to be careful about it's capital expenditures and careful about it's product choices. The phrase 'M8 saved Leica' may be the most irrefutable thing ever said about the frippin camera, but there is also little error in saying Leica isn't Apple and doesn't have that behemoth's people and money resources to be putting multi-tiers of products into a wide range of categories at the same time, either. I would also say that a company the size of Apple has the financial werewithal to withstand making a few marketplace errors along the way and to keep cruising merrily along. Leica has limited capacity to make very many 'big' mistakes, in comparison. I love my M8 and I sacrificed a great deal to have one in my life. My seeing it as reasonable to not make them anymore doesn't lesson how special I feel my camera is and it doesn't lessen how well I enjoy the images it makes. Sincerely Richard in Michigan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted December 26, 2011 Share #30 Posted December 26, 2011 Richard, I have no desire to lessen your enjoyment of your M8, far from it, I still enjoy mine too. I was only questioning your theory that Leica discontinued production of the M8 because it was supposedly unable to keep up with demand. Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestMichigan Posted December 27, 2011 Share #31 Posted December 27, 2011 HiYa Pete, I didn't think you had any desire to lessen my enjoyment of my M8 :-). Nor do I have any aspirations to do that for anyone either! That would be positively hideous, me thinks. I am going to civilly withdraw pressing my theses. I am obviously fumbling their presentation and absent me figuring out a better way to present them, it is certainly not anything worth being a pratt over! Happy Holidays Everyone. R in Mi. Richard, I have no desire to lessen your enjoyment of your M8, far from it, I still enjoy mine too. I was only questioning your theory that Leica discontinued production of the M8 because it was supposedly unable to keep up with demand. Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted December 27, 2011 Share #32 Posted December 27, 2011 HiYa Pete, I didn't think you had any desire to lessen my enjoyment of my M8 :-). Nor do I have any aspirations to do that for anyone either! That would be positively hideous, me thinks. I am going to civilly withdraw pressing my theses. I am obviously fumbling their presentation and absent me figuring out a better way to present them, it is certainly not anything worth being a pratt over! Happy Holidays Everyone. R in Mi. Richard, A very gracious and graceful withdrawal. I wish you a happy holiday too. Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWC Doppel Posted December 29, 2011 Share #33 Posted December 29, 2011 I think Ken just says what he wants to say. And I think it should be normal, in a sense that afterall its his own website. He can even say that the leica saved his life and changed his mind about commiting suicide because Leica is so good, or something. I visit his site every now and them because despite whatever personal opinions he has, his technical data and sample images are quite resourceful especially when I want to buy some old leica lens somewhere.. Well put it's only technical analysis that holds any interest, his pictures are more 'snaps' than anything else. Why choose a railing to show bokeh ? I would rather look at Stevehuffs site any day of the week Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramosa Posted December 29, 2011 Share #34 Posted December 29, 2011 Ken's site is good for specs, serial numbers and the like. For anything else (e.g., reviews or perspectives), it offers me nothing, aside from, perhaps, a mix of laughter and torment Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzwave Posted December 30, 2011 Share #35 Posted December 30, 2011 Ken who?..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWC Doppel Posted January 18, 2012 Share #36 Posted January 18, 2012 I have just read his recommendation section and what he says about the use of the M9....... Landscape and nature, not a people camera ! Has he been hit on the head by a 2Kg japanese lens Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestMichigan Posted January 18, 2012 Share #37 Posted January 18, 2012 I have just read his recommendation section and what he says about the use of the M9....... Landscape and nature, not a people camera ! Has he been hit on the head by a 2Kg japanese lens I don't know if he 'Has' been dinged with one, but Karma might decide he 'Gets' to experience it. :-D R in Mi. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWC Doppel Posted January 18, 2012 Share #38 Posted January 18, 2012 I don't know if he 'Has' been dinged with one, but Karma might decide he 'Gets' to experience it. :-D R in Mi. LOL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMyers Posted January 21, 2012 Share #39 Posted January 21, 2012 The more people out in Leicaland laugh at Ken's site, the more he laughs at them laughing. He has a long article posted all about it. Personally, I find his site very entertaining and informative. Maybe some of his ideas are rather simple, but why not? Why complicate things? As to M8 or M9, Ken (and lots of others) prefer the newer version. Then there are people, myself included, who don't want to lose the ability to do IR, and who feel it's important to have the "gorilla glass" on the back. I love the camera, but I'm old and used to enjoy shooting with film M's. For that matter, I also used to enjoy film, and real darkrooms, and music that came o records. Like them or not, Ken is constantly posting photos that he has taken. He seems to feel that people enjoying websites like this one do more "discussing" than "photographing". Maybe he's right. .....depending on why someone takes a photo, that photo up above of a kitty kat will probably be viewed by far more people than 99% of the photos most of us have taken, myself included of course. Back to Ken's photos - many of them were taken/posted to show something relating to what he's writing about. Some were "just for fun". It's easy to tell how serious he was, or wasn't, about why he took most of his photos. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 21, 2012 Share #40 Posted January 21, 2012 I don't think we are really laughing at him, but maybe we do not appreciate that there are different sites at different levels - his is a simple view for simple photographers, ours a blinkered one for geeks It is human nature for "them" and "us" to regard each other mutually as fools. No harm in that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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