Guest guy_mancuso Posted February 22, 2007 Share #21 Posted February 22, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Well if you do just count me in also. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 22, 2007 Posted February 22, 2007 Hi Guest guy_mancuso, Take a look here M8 Travel Battery Charger. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
LichMD Posted February 22, 2007 Share #22 Posted February 22, 2007 I too can solder, but I'd rather pay Mark for his time. Mark let us know how much and where to send it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cindy Flood Posted February 22, 2007 Share #23 Posted February 22, 2007 If Mark is selling them, count me in. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tashley Posted February 22, 2007 Share #24 Posted February 22, 2007 You guys are all pussies .... did none of you own a Kodak Pro SLR/n? Now THAT was a camera with a REAL charger - a charger you could live in, raise kids in, get a mortgage on. I am so not joking here. t Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnM Posted February 22, 2007 Share #25 Posted February 22, 2007 I'll take one too......I just hope you do start to sell them!Great work! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roubaix Posted February 22, 2007 Share #26 Posted February 22, 2007 I'm in. I'm a pussy and I'm buying... Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark D Posted February 22, 2007 Share #27 Posted February 22, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) From one Mark to another, add me to the list. And I agree with the poster that said Leica needs to make one this small. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted February 22, 2007 Author Share #28 Posted February 22, 2007 OK, here is some detail. First, the rationale for doing it was indeed that I could remove the part that runs it off the household AC supply because I always travel with a separate power adapter to run a laptop (Toshiba or Sony). It will not suit everyone and that Apple magnetic connector is non-standard. Removing the power supply - which takes up space, gets hot and needs air to circulate - leaves just the charge controller and you'll see that part is quite easy. Squeezing everything into a box this small ((70 * 49 * 26mm, 2.75" * 2" * 1") requires some extra work. I also wanted to use brighter LEDs. There are no safety issues EXCEPT there needs to be a fuse in the input powerline so that if it all goes horribly wrong, the fuse will blow. The car cable which comes with the Leica charger has a 2A fuse in the plug and my charger has a 2A fuse as well to protect it when used with other sources. My charger does use a donor Leica charger to supply the electronics and the top part for slotting in the battery for charging. To get in, remove the plastic plugs at each corner; the screws are anti-tamper but if you don't have the right screwdriver, you can file a notch in an old one or else just drill the screws out. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Open the lid and here you can see the underside of the top where the battery slots in. There are 3 connections to the battery: + (red), - (black), temperature sensor (yellow). You can also see the light pipes which align with the green and yellow LEDs on the circuit board. The other black and red wires connect to the car cable connector. There's silicone sealer used to stop the wires from flexing. Bottom line though is that there are just 5 wires to think about - 3 out to the battery and 2 in from the car battery (or other DC supply). When the Leica charger is used in the mode, the AC power supply is redundant and we are going to remove it. Sorry about this next picture - I took it and by the time I realised how bad it was, I'd already butchered the thing. Still, you can tell this is low grade functional electronics, but electronic art is it not. The part on the right is the AC supply which we do not need. Extreme right in the black sleeve is a fuse, there's a circuit to convert the AC to high voltage DC - see that black capacitor which is rated 400v - and a transistor oscillator to power the yellow isolating transformer. The silver heat sink stop things getting hot and bothered. The charge controller on the left is isolated from the AC supply - energy flows through the transformer and the optical isolator (basically an LED and photo-transistor) allows the low voltage side to feedback to the power supply to control it. The blue capacitors are safety components whch we do not need when the supply is not running from the AC supply. On the charge controller, the blue preset control is used to adjust the battery charge voltage and you can see the screw has been sealed with varnish. You can also see where the 5 wires connect to the board and the toroidal inductor is part of the power circuit used to charge the battery. You can also see the green and yellow LEDs mounted directly on the board and finally, you can perhaps see the glue liberally applied to stop everything moving around. Turn the board over and the encounter this horror... It's a copper sheet wrapped in plastic with an additional insulating layer, there to reduce the amount the amount of energy this thing radiates. Without it, it will probably interfere with, for example, AM radio. The point is that it is connected to the "live" side of the supply and could give an electric shock if touched. It's not accessible normally, but if you look closely when it's folded back, you can see indents in the insulation from the cut wire ends on the circuit board. It would not be good news for those cut ends to break through to the copper layer. Highlights that for all the fancy case, this is commodity electronics - the whole thing probably costs less than $10 to make. With a view of the circuit board, you can see clearly where the isolation from the household supply is - that blank space in the middle with just those isolating components I mentioned bridging the gap. On the right is the part we're interested in. This is the charge controller which is designed to take the battery through the correct charging cycle. Charging Li-Ion batteries is far removed from NiCads or car batteries where at the most basic level, you just connect power across them and let them sort themselves out. More sophisticated chargers, such as used here, monitor the charge current and battery voltage as well as the battery temperature and have a defined cut-off. Once the battery is charged, the charger is switched off, you don't leave them to "trickle-charge" as you do lead-acid batteries. On the right are the 5 pads where the wires to the battery and car battery cable attach to the board and, apart from the AC supply which we're not going to use, those are the only connections to the outside world. The black rectangle top right is the Charge Controller chip. The manufacturer of this charger has gone to the lengths of grinding off the type designation, presumably in an effort to stop the design being copied. Don't flatter yourself! The chip is similar to ones from National Semiconductor and Maxim-Dallas costing a little over $1. So, next step is to get out the hack-saw and cut down that centre line and remove the components which bridge it.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Open the lid and here you can see the underside of the top where the battery slots in. There are 3 connections to the battery: + (red), - (black), temperature sensor (yellow). You can also see the light pipes which align with the green and yellow LEDs on the circuit board. The other black and red wires connect to the car cable connector. There's silicone sealer used to stop the wires from flexing. Bottom line though is that there are just 5 wires to think about - 3 out to the battery and 2 in from the car battery (or other DC supply). When the Leica charger is used in the mode, the AC power supply is redundant and we are going to remove it. Sorry about this next picture - I took it and by the time I realised how bad it was, I'd already butchered the thing. Still, you can tell this is low grade functional electronics, but electronic art is it not. The part on the right is the AC supply which we do not need. Extreme right in the black sleeve is a fuse, there's a circuit to convert the AC to high voltage DC - see that black capacitor which is rated 400v - and a transistor oscillator to power the yellow isolating transformer. The silver heat sink stop things getting hot and bothered. The charge controller on the left is isolated from the AC supply - energy flows through the transformer and the optical isolator (basically an LED and photo-transistor) allows the low voltage side to feedback to the power supply to control it. The blue capacitors are safety components whch we do not need when the supply is not running from the AC supply. On the charge controller, the blue preset control is used to adjust the battery charge voltage and you can see the screw has been sealed with varnish. You can also see where the 5 wires connect to the board and the toroidal inductor is part of the power circuit used to charge the battery. You can also see the green and yellow LEDs mounted directly on the board and finally, you can perhaps see the glue liberally applied to stop everything moving around. Turn the board over and the encounter this horror... It's a copper sheet wrapped in plastic with an additional insulating layer, there to reduce the amount the amount of energy this thing radiates. Without it, it will probably interfere with, for example, AM radio. The point is that it is connected to the "live" side of the supply and could give an electric shock if touched. It's not accessible normally, but if you look closely when it's folded back, you can see indents in the insulation from the cut wire ends on the circuit board. It would not be good news for those cut ends to break through to the copper layer. Highlights that for all the fancy case, this is commodity electronics - the whole thing probably costs less than $10 to make. With a view of the circuit board, you can see clearly where the isolation from the household supply is - that blank space in the middle with just those isolating components I mentioned bridging the gap. On the right is the part we're interested in. This is the charge controller which is designed to take the battery through the correct charging cycle. Charging Li-Ion batteries is far removed from NiCads or car batteries where at the most basic level, you just connect power across them and let them sort themselves out. More sophisticated chargers, such as used here, monitor the charge current and battery voltage as well as the battery temperature and have a defined cut-off. Once the battery is charged, the charger is switched off, you don't leave them to "trickle-charge" as you do lead-acid batteries. On the right are the 5 pads where the wires to the battery and car battery cable attach to the board and, apart from the AC supply which we're not going to use, those are the only connections to the outside world. The black rectangle top right is the Charge Controller chip. The manufacturer of this charger has gone to the lengths of grinding off the type designation, presumably in an effort to stop the design being copied. Don't flatter yourself! The chip is similar to ones from National Semiconductor and Maxim-Dallas costing a little over $1. So, next step is to get out the hack-saw and cut down that centre line and remove the components which bridge it.... 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mike prevette Posted February 22, 2007 Share #29 Posted February 22, 2007 WOW that is the worst looking pcb I've seen in years. Congrats on your fine work on this though. I'm thinking of making a USB version, I need to look up some lion charge chips to see how much they draw. similar all in one charger chip: LP3947 - USB/AC Adaptor, Single Cell Li-Ion Battery Charger IC Also a neat li-lon charge ic based on USB supply voltage: Summit Sets Records with Digitally Programmable Li-Ion Charger IC _mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted February 22, 2007 Author Share #30 Posted February 22, 2007 ...OK, that wasn't too painful. Here's the part of the circuit board we're going to use. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! I've tidied it up and reconnected the 5 wires at the top - the black wire is hidden but you can see it's connected to the battery holder which I cut from the top of the donor charger and filed to leave a rim of about 1 mm all the way round. In the final box, I cut a hole of the correct shape, inserted the battery holder through the hole and secure it in position with glue. You can see the yellow and green LEDs are on, showing the battery is being charged from the laptop power supply which is connected to the (now) violet and orange wires. The red, yellow and black wires connect to the battery holder. You could therefore, just rehouse this lot in a plastic box big enough to hold the circuit board with the battery holder on top but if you want to minimise the size of the thing, some changes have to be made to the circuit board to reduce the height of the components on it. This circuit gets its power from one of two places - the violet/orange wires and the AC supply which are effectively "OR-ed" together using a pair of diodes. There are some components on this board which are no longer required because they relate to the low voltage, isolated side, of the AC supply and they can be removed. If you compare this view of the board and the one of the installed board below, you'll be able to work out which components can be removed. The voltage regulator (bottom right) is folded down on the board to reduce the height and the toroidal inductor is laid on its side in the space made available by the removed components to reduce its height. I cut the board down some more and used the two holes to mount the board inside my box using a piece of plactic angle glued to the side. The red circle at the bottom is the all-important fuse which is used to limit the amount of current which can flow into the box from the laptop supply. For the LEDs, I could have just run wires from the existing board positions to new LEDs but I decided I wanted brighter LEDs, so I added a small board top right with the LEDs mounted on it and green, pink and white wires to the main board. The LEDs protrude through holes drilled in the side of the box, "super-glued" into position, more details on request. That's it.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! I've tidied it up and reconnected the 5 wires at the top - the black wire is hidden but you can see it's connected to the battery holder which I cut from the top of the donor charger and filed to leave a rim of about 1 mm all the way round. In the final box, I cut a hole of the correct shape, inserted the battery holder through the hole and secure it in position with glue. You can see the yellow and green LEDs are on, showing the battery is being charged from the laptop power supply which is connected to the (now) violet and orange wires. The red, yellow and black wires connect to the battery holder. You could therefore, just rehouse this lot in a plastic box big enough to hold the circuit board with the battery holder on top but if you want to minimise the size of the thing, some changes have to be made to the circuit board to reduce the height of the components on it. This circuit gets its power from one of two places - the violet/orange wires and the AC supply which are effectively "OR-ed" together using a pair of diodes. There are some components on this board which are no longer required because they relate to the low voltage, isolated side, of the AC supply and they can be removed. If you compare this view of the board and the one of the installed board below, you'll be able to work out which components can be removed. The voltage regulator (bottom right) is folded down on the board to reduce the height and the toroidal inductor is laid on its side in the space made available by the removed components to reduce its height. I cut the board down some more and used the two holes to mount the board inside my box using a piece of plactic angle glued to the side. The red circle at the bottom is the all-important fuse which is used to limit the amount of current which can flow into the box from the laptop supply. For the LEDs, I could have just run wires from the existing board positions to new LEDs but I decided I wanted brighter LEDs, so I added a small board top right with the LEDs mounted on it and green, pink and white wires to the main board. The LEDs protrude through holes drilled in the side of the box, "super-glued" into position, more details on request. That's it.... ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/16838-m8-travel-battery-charger/?do=findComment&comment=179001'>More sharing options...
marknorton Posted February 22, 2007 Author Share #31 Posted February 22, 2007 Mike, the Leica battery is charged at 0.75A maximum which decreases as the battery becomes charged and then shuts off at about 0.08A. I too had hoped to be able to attach this charger to a USB port but of course this exceeds the current limit of USB ports. A USB charger would be interesting but the charging current would have to be reduced which would increase the charge time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike prevette Posted February 22, 2007 Share #32 Posted February 22, 2007 I might just build one based on this little guy: Spark Fun Electronics Yes it will take longer, but hell I've got usb everywhere. _mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
4season Posted February 22, 2007 Share #33 Posted February 22, 2007 Great job, Mark, thanks for sharing! I see what looks like a couple of rectifier diodes remaining on the board: Is this correct, and are you thus protected against reverse polarity? Also, how did you cut the battery holder off so neatly, and how did you bond it to the new housing? As I think about it, I may be tempted to build one around one of these Kensington universal power supplies: 120 Watt Notebook AC/DC Power Adapter With the appropriate tips, it looks like it can power just about anything I'd conceivably carry-cell phone, Jobo Giga Vu, iPod, notebook. Only thing missing so far is a Magsafe adapter, but I can think of a few ways to fix that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted February 22, 2007 Author Share #34 Posted February 22, 2007 Jett Thanks, yes the two sources of DC are "OR-ed" together which also provides reverse polarity protection for the external DC. There's also a Zener diode across it to provide over-voltage protection. The components removed are: the diode which rectifies the output from the transformer, two electroytics which smooth it, one wire link with a ferrite bead and two chip resistors and a zener which previously were connected to the LED end of the optical isolator. Together, they are the low voltage end of the AC supply. I cut the top case roughly, then used a stand mounted Dremel with one of the cylindrical shaped sanding "tubes" to grind away what I didn't want, finishing off with a hand file. The polystyrene the case is made of is very soft, so you need to go easy so that you are cutting and not over-heating the part you want to keep. On the new box, I cut the hole I needed similarly, hand-fitting with a file. I used a hot-melt glue gun on the underside around the edge to glue to two together and black silicone sealant to make a good join on the part you can see. Another tip is to use what we call in the UK "Back to Black" which is a used in car valeting to restore the shiny black lustre to plastic trim and hide the inevitable handling marks the case will pick up. That power adapter looks an ideal starting point for powering all your portable devices. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffreyg Posted February 22, 2007 Share #35 Posted February 22, 2007 Great info, and really wonderful to get in and take it apart. Now, can we find a third party vendor? Anyone need a small business? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted February 22, 2007 Share #36 Posted February 22, 2007 The M8 battery charger is indeed an awful piece of industrial design. I've always thought it had a cheap and nasty feel about it but looking at Mark's shots of the inside, I can see how cheap it really is. Leica have some nerve charging about 75 quid for it (I daresay they will make more profit on sales of spare chargers than they do on the M8 itself!). Talking of industrial design, I suspect more time and effort went into the design of the carboard packaging for the M8 than has gone into the charger. I imagine Leica just gave the spec they needed to Ansmann (who clearly don't care much about design) and let them get on with it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted February 22, 2007 Share #37 Posted February 22, 2007 The M8 battery charger is indeed an awful piece of industrial design. I've always thought it had a cheap and nasty feel about it but looking at Mark's shots of the inside, I can see how cheap it really is. Leica have some nerve charging about 75 quid for it (I daresay they will make more profit on sales of spare chargers than they do on the M8 itself!). Talking of industrial design, I suspect more time and effort went into the design of the carboard packaging for the M8 than has gone into the charger. I imagine Leica just gave the spec they needed to Ansmann (who clearly don't care much about design) and let them get on with it. I hope the guys who make the chargers are not the same guys who make the PCB's for inside the M8 but perhaps given the failure rate - maybe they are. Wilson Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 22, 2007 Share #38 Posted February 22, 2007 It does indeed not look very pretty;and leaves the supplier and Leica with some egg on their faces, but well, it appears to do the job so maybe we should not complain. Having opened up several 2000 Euro plus espresso- machines, made by Gaggia, San Marco and others, I cannot say I am surprised at this. Those machines left me in very real fear of being electrocuted in my own kitchen. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steich Posted February 22, 2007 Share #39 Posted February 22, 2007 To those who know more about electronics than I do: Isn´t this "copper-and-bandaid"-thing a little dangerous? Even if you can not touch it unless you open the charger- if shit happens, it could still short-circuit something, couldn´t it? Regards Stefan Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted February 22, 2007 Author Share #40 Posted February 22, 2007 It seems clear it's been included as an afterthought, a fix to allow the charger to meet some regulatory standard. It's certainly not best practice. I agree with Ian Watts, I expect Leica's first priority was to select the battery pack - because of its influence on the whole camera - and just rely on their supplier to handle the rest. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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