21 CV Color Skopar

[Printmaker]

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I know red edge has been discussed before but I read that the new firmware has fixed this problem. Here's the quote:

 

"... I got the Skopar 21 and have been using on my M9 with the latest firmware. By "locking" the ISO at 160 and selecting the older 21 Leica for correction, the results are very nice. I had been wanting this lens, but thought it might only work on my film Ms, so the firmware release pushed me over the edge.

 

I think the good reception of this tiny lens may have pushed Leica to do the new Super Elmar, but since they improved the firmware correction (for their new lens I'm sure) I'd expect also more demand for the Skopar.

 

Tom Brunson"

 

Is this true? Can anyone confirm that this lens is usable on the M9? I know construction QC is poor at Cossina but the CV I owned (35/2.5) was a good performer. I've been trying to justify a 21 Super Elmar purchase and quotes like this make me think twice - especially if the 50 Summicron ASPH rumor is true. I'd much rather put my money towards a lens I would use all of the time than one that is a once-in-a-while optic.

 

Thanks in advance

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[250swb]

Yes, some people claim that red edge has been cured for the 21mm Skopar, and a small improvement may have been effected in some lenses by the latest firmware due to sample variation. But like the 21mm Zeiss f/4.5 Biogon the 21mm Skopar still does exhibit a lot of red edge when used with the M9. Of course you can map it out with Cornerfix, and it is a cute little lens, but don't believe the hype about it being fixed.

 

The only non Leica 21mm lens I can think of that doesn't exhibit red edge is the excellent Zeiss ZM f/2.8 Biogon.

 

Steve

[TomB_tx]

My sample of CV21 and M9 work very well together, and since I don't use a 21 much it was the right price/value combination. I set the 21 f2.8 Leica profile, use low ISO settings, and do not notice discoloration in "real" pictures. If you shoot a blank white wall and check the histogram it shows more red on the left, but not enough to bother me. I just use it and enjoy the pictures, rather than worry about things no one has noticed in my pictures.

Other people report more of a problem on their particular samples, and their results could be worse, or they may use higher ISO settings (which does make a difference), or they may be more sensitive to such issues than I am. I know I've heard from users who first thought the problem was bad, then tried it again and found their results good. Perhaps they use auto ISO which would make the results more variable.

For the price of the lens I think it is worth the risk to try yourself.

[lct]

Just curious. Did you try the Summicron 28 profile with the M9? Works fine with my M8.2, hence my question.

[TomB_tx]

Just for reference on the red-edge issue - here's a snapshot I had taken of a flooring project that is pretty lame, but lets you see the left-edge effects. This is straight from camera jpg - so no manipulation, using the CV 21mm, profile of 21 2.8, ISO 400.

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[250swb]

but lets you see the left-edge effects.

 

Disguised in shade? Clever.

 

Steve

[adan]

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Disguised in shade? Clever.

 

Steve

 

First time I've ever hear a white door referred to as "shade".

 

The 21-pre-ASPH settings and the newest firmware have definitely improved red edge with my 15mm c/v. NOT cured - improved. I don't know how the 21 f/4 compared to the 15 with the old firmware, but if it had less red edge to begin with, the new firmware has likely improved it as well.

[TomB_tx]

Sorry for my choice of pictures - no cleverness was intended. From all the talk on the Web I bought this lens for film use, half expecting it to be terrible on my M9. Instead I find it very usable. I don't generally take test shots of blank white walls, but had that picture that did have a white door at the "suspect" edge. I see now that due to the angle of that wall it is in less direct light; but the door is still "white." And that's my point: if you are not looking to find the edge effects, you usually don't notice them.

I agree there is still a slight color shift, but it normally gets ovelooked as the vignetting of an ultra-wide lens. When it is this subtle, I don't care about it. If it bothers you; don't buy the lens. For me it was a bargain.

Here's another snapshot of my son's flooring work with different lighting - not picked to show or hide how the lens works, just a normal snapshot.

I also just went out and took a couple of vertical shots so the red-edge shows up in the blue sky on one, and at the bottom of the other; so you can judge the difference yourself.

If someone else has experience that the lens is so bad, why not post examples for people to see, rather than just talk about it?

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[Printmaker]

Thanks for the samples Tom.

 

I thought about editing out your name on my post but I'm glad I didn't. You seem to be being a good sport about this.

 

I sold my 21 Biogon to fund a 50 Summicron purchase. The 21 Biogon gave me occasional red edge and few shots were really bad. It was an undependable tool.

 

I only just stepped up to a M9, I wanted a 50 Summicron to do the work my 35 Summicron once did on my M8. The 21 sale funded the 50. Now I find that the 50 Summicron (type 3), tends to flare when pointed towards the sun (hooded). The flare is bad enough that I need to be aware of how I use this lens. So I was thinking about one day replacing it with the rumored 50 Summicron ASPH and getting the CV 21 to fill my super wide needs. Were I to use my lens fund towards a 21 Super Elmar or a good used 21 Elmarit, I'd have to wait a year or two before I could replace the 50.

[Double Negative]

The latest firmware on the M9 most definitely helps. Whereas the 4/21 Color Skopar was "unusable" before, it's actually usable out of the box now - without needing CornerFix. There's still some slight coloration, and depends entirely on the exact lens it's coded as - along with perhaps the alignment of the planets at that exact moment... But it's quite usable, and a real peach of a lens.

 

I have the 21, 28, 35 and 50 Skopars, all in LTM - as my "travel kit." Highly recommend any of them (especially the 35).

[TomB_tx]

Were I to use my lens fund towards a 21 Super Elmar or a good used 21 Elmarit, I'd have to wait a year or two before I could replace the 50.

I understand the cost issue, which is why I got the CV21. Actually, the only Leica lenses I got new were 68-69 versions of 35 & 50 Summicrons, and a "fat" TeleElmarit 90. These have been my main lenses for 40 years, and I'm still happy with them.

Again, bargain hunting I did pick up a 50 Nokton 1.5 (LTM mount) which I use a lot on the M9, and a 35 Nokton 1.4. Both are nice for low light, and focus perfectly on the M9, where my Summicrons front-focus (but I use them on film Ms where they are fine). I do prefer the Summicrons in good light, which is why I might consider getting a new Summicron 50. I don't care about the asph version; but a year or so out sounds right for the waiting list anyway!

[FlashGordonPhotography]

I'm very pleased with my m mount 21mm Skopar. I bought it only after the firmware upgrade, so I have no idea if it's improved. I coded it using the Coder kit and left it at that. I haven't tried any other setting other than the one shown in the kit.I haven't even made a Cornerfix profile for it yet as I have yet to see an image that needed one. I can say that it sure is sharp. For the tiny cost involved I'm very very pleased.

 

Gordon

[250swb]

First time I've ever hear a white door referred to as "shade".

 

Well if its not shade Andy what would you call a white door that is out of the direct light, a highlight?

 

Steve

[adan]

A mid-tone (which it is in Tom's shot - reads out as 52% gray - can't get much closer to the "middle" than that ).

 

I'd accept your point if the black cupboard had been on the left.

[Alnitak]

This lens is now very usable on the M9 with the latest firmware, as long as you code it as the Leica 21mm f/2.8 Elmarit-M (pre-ASPH, 11134). The red edge is rarely visible in normal use and even when it does show up, its rarely a real issue. It's a bargain.