Handholding at slow speed, SLR vs RF

[250swb]

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At slow shutterspeeds it is counterproductive. You don't want anything preventing your finger from resting on the shutter collar.

 

At such long shutter speeds the subject of people in the photograph can hardly (generally speaking) be the reason for the image, because they move themselves and blur even if the photographer is stood stock still. So for all those other times when the subject is static, so no 'decisive moment' to capture, why not simply use the self timer and not touch the shutter button at all at the moment of exposure? 2 seconds on the M9 isn't long to wait, but long enough to breath deeply and stand still.

 

But it still amazes me that people have such confidence in their ability to make reliable exposure's slower than 1/25th sec, how often are they doing it to be so confident and practiced, or is lurking in the dark a characteristic of the average Leica user?

 

Steve

[jaapv]

Another trick is the put the camera to C.. The first shot will be the softest, the third usually the best.

Instead of asking "how often", I fear it would be more to the point to ask " for how many years"

[johnwolf]

With this matter cropping up again I decided to revived an old thread and merge it with Lord Fluff's recent question

 

FYI, I prefer the unmerged versions. The 2nd OP's point about slr vs. RF is now buried and lost in a long thread. We are all capable of searching and then scanning topic titles for specific interests. Not a big deal, Jaap, but just wanted to share another perspective.

 

John

[Lord Fluff]

Thanks John. For what it's worth, I tend to agree - I wasn't asking how to hold the camera, just questioning the accepted wisdom that M's are better than SLRs at low speed.

 

Well-intentioned I'm sure Jaapv, but ultimately confusing I think - I'd have preferred it if you'd linked to the old thread.

[jaapv]

OK -unmerged...

[pico]

You are completely right. The shutter release action on the digital M cameras is atrocious – long, jerky and grating. It would never be tolerated on a match rifle or pistol (I know – I used to hone my trigger actions myself, literally). The button should have a smooth take-up (if any) to the point of release, a light but distinct release, and no fall-through after it. Too many functions – power-up, exposure lock, release –have been built into the action. I use the Soft Release option, but it is still not good.

 

Maybe the Gnomes of Solms should have a talk with the Gnomes of Hämmerli, or some other German-speaking manufacturer of target guns. Or even a competent local gunsmith.

 

The old man, home from the target butts

 

Great idea. I'd very much appreciate a release like that. FWIW, in my younger days I was a pistol (1911) exhibition shooter just for the $$ bets and to humble the cops on the range.

[jaapv]

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The old thread:

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/customer-forum/72598-handholding-low-speeds-your-experience-2.html#post1833503

[jaapv]

And just for fun: Super Elmar 18 on M9 at 1.5 sec. handheld:

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[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Everybody,

 

Nice photo Jaap.

 

Continuity of vision is an imortant aspect of a person's own built in image stabilization.

 

Prior to camera/lens image stabilization I think the reputation of a rangefinder camera as a steadier camera when using smaller lenses @ slower speeds may have come from a person's ability to remain steadier during the shutter blind's travel when there is no loss of continuity of vision from image blackout caused by a moving mirror. Add to that camera shake caused by the movement of a mirror & its accompanying parts.

 

Please note: A small strong table tripod w/ soft non-marking slippers on its feet w/ a large ball head & a cable release gives me 2 stops as a chest pod & as many stops as I need against a wall, a tree or whatever else is reasonably solid. Not a car w/ the engine running.

 

We all have nice photos we did @ f2 @ 1 sec. Think of what that same photo might have looked like @ f8 @ 15 sec. Or f2 @ 1 sec on a tripod against a wall or tree if Jaap is not with you.

 

The more often you use a small tripod the more places you find to use it & the more ways you will think of to do so. I have pretty much stopped needing to bring a full sized tripod anywhere for years. The small tripod, etc described above can multiply your options in many situations. It doesn't take much space @ all.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

[Guest Randle P. McMurphy]

Take your RF and shut up - hold you breath - press the button.

Take your SLR and activate IS or VR - sing a song - press the button.

 

No difference at the pictures, but maybe you can´t sing so buy a RF.

[40mm f/2]

One cause of motion blur is pressing the shutter. Better technique makes a big difference but if possible I use the the self timer set at 2 sec.

[spydrxx]

Practice, practice & more practice...breathing, forearm muscle development and proper frame of mind with mental concentration. It truly isn't rocket science, or I couldn't feel confident doing it. After being hit by a car 21 years ago, and breaking several hand bones (among other stuff), development of light tremors, I thought perhaps my photographic endeavors would be limited to bright daylight shooting only. As a form of therapy, I purchased spring loaded hand strengtheners used by trumpet players to strengthen my grip, started practicing the piano (poorly I might add after many years of disuse) to increase my flexibility, and took up target pistol shooting to build my forearm and wrist strength and work on my breathing. Within a year I was better with slow handheld shots than I had ever been before. Ten years later, after a severe heart attack, cardiac surgery and a small stroke, I went thru the same procedures again augmented by a strenuous cardiac rehab program. I got back to the same point with regard to handholding slow shots, and a lot more in terms of general athletic ability (I ran my first marathon in 59 year, 3 years after the surgery). Simply stated...my first sentence I think is applicable for most people.

[davidmhol]

I find it difficult to use the M6 at low speeds. The 111c is not a problem at all. But if you look at the respective positions of the shutter release buttons, the release on the 111c is in a much better/easier position to release with no effort.

 

My Pentax ME is equally easy to use at low speeds - it has a very well-designed shutter release button and mechanism.

 

I like the rifle/pistol trigger simile. I've done a little target shooting, and if the M6 release was a trigger it would definitely need some attention!

[sbelyaev]

It is practically impossible to get consistently good results with Leica in low light situations. Some pictures may turn out to be good, but that is a matter of luck. SLRs with IBIS are much better. I use Oly E5 with summilux or ZD 14-35 in near complete darkness without worrying about getting blurred images.

[hamey]

I prefer my SLR's for day to day shooting, but my M7 does wonders with hand held shots in low light.

 

Ken.

[Lord Fluff]

Practice, practice & more practice...breathing, forearm muscle development and proper frame of mind with mental concentration.

 

Surely this applies equally with both RF and SLR though?

[spydrxx]

It certainly does apply to both SLRs & RF cameras. I, personally, don't find much of a distinction in many slow speed situations when dealing with fractional seconds. I find that I've been more successful with RF cameras in 1 sec. situations than SLR/DSLRs. I don't pretend to speak for others in this regard, nor do I accept that one is better than the other. Personally, I think if you're not using some ancillary support at these speeds you can reasonably expect less than optimal results. I admit to having fun with a 400mm lens on both one of my DSLRs and Visoflex shooting at 15 seconds at night...if I was just using a beanbag and not a tripod both results were equally horrible

[pico]

One cause of motion blur is pressing the shutter. Better technique makes a big difference but if possible I use the the self timer set at 2 sec.

 

It's an effective technique and a great tip, however, if you have a heartbeat the camera will move during an exposure over 1/15th of a second.