animefx Posted July 27, 2011 Share #1 Posted July 27, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) I'm still waiting for my M8 to arrive while I'm considering what lens to get other than my 40mm f/2 rokkor-m I already own. I've been seeing some AMAZING look photos from the various Leica 90mm lenses... Sometimes they are specified which version, sometimes not. I have to admit I'm a little confused about a few things with Leica's 90mm lenses, if anyone can clear this up I would be most appreciative. - Which 90mm Leica lenses are still in production? - I've heard there are one or two 90mm lenses that have back focusing problems with the M8 and M9 or somehow aren't "meant" for digital... Is this true? If so which version(s) of the 90mm are they referring to? - Also, what is APO? Is the APO also an ASPH lens? Is APO better than ASPH or do they have nothing to do with eachother? If I get a 90mm I want it to be sharp corner to corner as I might use it for landscapes and portraits as well. I've seen photos from the 90mm elmar-c for the Leica CL / Leitz Minolta CL (or CLE) and I'm not overly impressed like I am with my 40mm f/2. I also heard the 90mm summarit is the worst of the 4 summarit lenses, so I might avoid that too (I am interested in the 75 summarit however.) If there is anything else I should know about 90mm lenses please let me know, I'm looking for a nice balance between sharpness and middle of the road price (for Leica) if possible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 27, 2011 Posted July 27, 2011 Hi animefx, Take a look here Confusion over Leica 90mm lenses and APO. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
haroldp Posted July 27, 2011 Share #2 Posted July 27, 2011 APO stands for Apochromat, which is a lens that is perfectly corrected for chromatic abberation at at least one point in the focal plane (at one focus distance). an APO lens may or may not be an ASPH. Many spherical lenses are Apochromat. ASPH stands for aspherical which means that at least one surface is not ground as a section of a sphere. It is expensive to do this and is usually used to improve lens correction at edges or corners, particularly for wide apertures. An ASPH lens may or my not be an Apochromat, but most are. I currently have and use 90 / 4 Elmar-C, 90 / 2.8 Elmarit-M , and 90 / 2.0 Summicrons (Ser. 4 and ASPH). The Summicrons are among the finest lenses I have ever used, but are large and heavy (for Leica, after using a Nikon 70-200 / 2.8 they are easy). If I could only keep one, it would be the 90 / 2.8 Elmarit-M , as the best combination of performance, size, weight. The Summicrons are brilliant portrait lenses wide open for M9, too long for M8. On the cropped M8 sensor, corners should be perfect for all of them. At f 5.6 all of these lenses are indistiguishable . Pick based on need for aperture, size, cost. Regards ... H Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted July 27, 2011 Share #3 Posted July 27, 2011 About the present lineup of 90s, the figure is simple : - Summicron f2 APO ASPH (the two specs aren't neccessarly coupled) : costly and heavy, focusing at f2 is always someway dicey. - Summarit f 2,5 : not too costly, light, excellent lens - Macro Elmar f4 : special lens, collapsible and very compact, a lot costly even without buying the addon macro ring. According to someone, the best 90 : personally, I'd like a lot to have it. Briefly said, an APO(chromatic) lens is made to have a top color correction which isn't an easy task for lenses of long focals : is related to the ratio focal length/light wavelength that becomes critical... theory says that rays of different color (wavelength) do focus on different planes : chromatic correction adresses this issue, which is not significant in short focals: you won't find often a wideangle declared as an APO. An ASPH(erical) lens is a lens which has some glass surfaces that are not spherical, to correct some optical abherrations (one of them is properly called spherical abherration) which degrade image sharpness at borders. Briefly said, it is a significant issue when the spherical surface is "large and/or very curved" to say, asphericals are made for lenses of great aperture and/or great angles of incident light (wideangles) . Easy to find deep explanations on both topics (Wikipedia etc...) Personally, I had MANY 90s in my Leica history, and a complete analisys would be long and tedious... at the moment I use a Elmarit M f 2,8 which went out of production some years ago : not so easy to find, excellent, not light, not cheap. An old Elmarit in good conditions could be a smart choice... then, personally, I like a lot the old Elmar 90 "3 elements"... then...the Tele Elmarit has good quality and exceptional compactness... then... there was also the Thambar... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted July 27, 2011 Share #4 Posted July 27, 2011 Still in production are: APO Summicron M 90mm f/2 ASPH. Summarit M 90mm f/2.5 Macro Elmar M 90mm f/4 There are no reasons why any of them should have systemic back focus problems. It is possible of course for individual lenses and/or camera bodies to require calibration. From the M8 forward Leica Camera developed more new test methods and equipment to tighten standards further, partly since sensors do not have the latitude to mask subtle errors that may have been un-noticed with film and of course images could be viewed at 100% on screen. The internet amplifies any concerns too. APO means apochromatic. Basically the property of focusing different wavelengths of light to same point to reduce chromatic aberrations (colour fringing for example). ASPH. means aspherical. Glass surface ground/moulded/pressed to a subtly different shape. (non-spherical) to reduce spherical aberrations/distortion for example. But there are other reasons to use aspherical elements too. Yes you can have apochromatic elements and aspherical elements in the same lens. The APO Summicron is certainly superb. It is of course more expensive, faster, and larger. A benchmark lens since its introduction. The Macro Elmar M is two stops slower of course. It is also tiny and is optimised for the best possible quality for closer subjects. It focuses closer again with the macro adapter fitted. It is now only available new as a kit with the macro adapter and angle finder which also helps make it quite expensive. I wouldn't take too much notice of what you have 'heard' regarding the Summarit M 90. You've said that you are looking for 'sharpness' and 'middle of the road price'. That might describe the Summarit range very well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
animefx Posted July 28, 2011 Author Share #5 Posted July 28, 2011 Thanks for the info guys. I will probably wait until I upgrade to a. M9 or M10 a few years from now before going for a 90mm. I think 75mm is as long as I'll want to go on then M8 due to the crop factor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Studio58 Posted July 28, 2011 Share #6 Posted July 28, 2011 I recently acquired the 75 Summicron and have found it to produce images of an incredibly high standard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted July 28, 2011 Share #7 Posted July 28, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Aagh Why not just ask about the 75mm lenses then! The APO Summicron M 75mm f/2 ASPH is superb. Sharp, contrasty, rich colour rendition, It is especially good at isolating your plane of focus and in-close performance too. Rebe in Melbourne photo - Geoff Hopkinson photos at pbase.com Make Up Artist at work photo - Geoff Hopkinson photos at pbase.com Careful pour photo - Geoff Hopkinson photos at pbase.com Adrienne confronts Lisette photo - Geoff Hopkinson photos at pbase.com Fruit Loops photo - Geoff Hopkinson photos at pbase.com Spiral Ginger photo - Geoff Hopkinson photos at pbase.com Wild Iris photo - Geoff Hopkinson photos at pbase.com The Summarit M is a spherical design but a very modern one. It is very well reported and excellent value for money. Both are compact, the Summarit of course is a little slower. Its minimum focus distance is 90cm (vs. 70cm with the Summicron). Bu you can find all of this information on the Leica Camera site of course and in reviews on-line. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry_R Posted August 16, 2011 Share #8 Posted August 16, 2011 Regarding: APO Summicron M 90mm f/2 ASPH - is there weight difference between silver and black? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 16, 2011 Share #9 Posted August 16, 2011 The Summicron 90 is also in chrome, considerably heavier. I don't think that the 90 AA is available in chrome, but I may be mistaken. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry_R Posted August 17, 2011 Share #10 Posted August 17, 2011 Thanks, my friend is selling silver one, I need to meet with him and put it to my M9. I consider trading my Summarit 90 for this one... I have to balance quality gain vs weight increase ;-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesk8752 Posted August 17, 2011 Share #11 Posted August 17, 2011 Thanks, my friend is selling silver one, I need to meet with him and put it to my M9. I consider trading my Summarit 90 for this one... I have to balance quality gain vs weight increase ;-) Unless you shoot on a tripod and worry about the corners a lot I'd be surprised if you see much difference. Certainly not at f4 and above... Regards, Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 17, 2011 Share #12 Posted August 17, 2011 I would say that, disregarding character, the Summarit is probably the "better" lens. Whatever better means. The difference will be marginal in any case. The Summicron may produce a rendering that you prefer, but whether that is worth a lot of money? The 90 Apo-Asph would be more interesting as an alternative to the Summarit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted August 17, 2011 Share #13 Posted August 17, 2011 The Summicron 90 is also in chrome, considerably heavier. I don't think that the 90 AA is available in chrome, but I may be mistaken. I'm pretty sure the 90 AA has been available in chrome - even if it hasn't been in the catalogue for a while. It has also been produced in black paint. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry_R Posted August 17, 2011 Share #14 Posted August 17, 2011 Yes, I have finally found it - 11885, produced in 2002-2004. It weights ~ 660g. http://www.rglewis.co.uk/PDF/LEICA/M_Lenses/6-bit_Coding_of_Leica_M_Lenses_en.pdf Leica M Lens Codes Leica M lenses coding for digital: Digital Photography Review http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/discus_e/messages/2/174327.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 17, 2011 Share #15 Posted August 17, 2011 Indeed, you guys are right. That must be a pretty rare lens. I found one sold by Westlicht in 2007 for 1600 Euro. That means the price by now will be well over 2500 Euro, closer to 3000. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry_R Posted August 18, 2011 Share #16 Posted August 18, 2011 So I had it in my hands. After some tests and comparisons - I prefer to stay with smaller and much lighter Summarit. Unless you shoot on a tripod and worry about the corners a lot I'd be surprised if you see much difference. Certainly not at f4 and above... Jim, you are right. Focusing, calibration - is big factor if we talk about sharpness. I was expecting big difference at f/2.4-2.5. I didn't find it in real life situations. I do not take care so much for corners at that focal. I will survive without f/2 too. Summarit vignetts more, what I like too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick in CO Posted August 18, 2011 Share #17 Posted August 18, 2011 I had one of the early (1970's) 90mm f2 Summicrons, the big one that is not well thought of in the internet forums as to sharpness. It was very sharp in the center wide open, maybe I had the best one ever made. Sold it for more than I paid for it, just don't use that focal length much on my M9. Probably the best 90mm lens for the value (~$500 US) in my opinion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpalme Posted August 18, 2011 Share #18 Posted August 18, 2011 If you want to learn about what an APO is.. try looking for APO telescope articles. Basically when light goes in a lens it doesn't come out in the nice neat pattern as going in.. so there's an extra lens in there to try to make a correction. It's usually the blues and purples that get scattered a bit. Even an APO can't correct it all so some telescope will add more than one correcting lens and of course the price goes up accordingly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted August 18, 2011 Share #19 Posted August 18, 2011 Unless you shoot on a tripod and worry about the corners a lot I'd be surprised if you see much difference. Certainly not at f4 and above... Did you try the Macro-Elmar Jim? It is my only current 90 and i have not much experience with it but it looks in another league at f/4 than any of my pre-asph 90s so far. M8.2, Macro-Elmar 90/4 w/o goggles, f/4, 1/125s, handheld: http://tinyurl.com/3v6pwfd (FF - 6 MB file) http://tinyurl.com/44gf6rl (100% crop - 300 KB file) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesk8752 Posted August 19, 2011 Share #20 Posted August 19, 2011 Did you try the Macro-Elmar Jim? It is my only current 90 and i have not much experience with it but it looks in another league at f/4 than any of my pre-asph 90s so far. M8.2, Macro-Elmar 90/4 w/o goggles, f/4, 1/125s, handheld: http://tinyurl.com/3v6pwfd (FF - 6 MB file) http://tinyurl.com/44gf6rl (100% crop - 300 KB file) I agree that the Macro-Elmar 90 delivers outstanding images, and I'd dearly love to have one, but I've already blown my lens budget for the next couple of years - additional M lenses will have to wait... Regards, Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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