StephenPatterson Posted June 27, 2011 Share #1 Â Posted June 27, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) So, you're Leica and you just announced the M9-P available in silver chrome and black paint. When dealer orders come in you see that silver chrome is outselling black paint by 10 to 1. Â Currently you only offer the 35 Summicron and the 50 Summilux in chrome, although you've made a few silver anodized Noctilux lenses recently for limited editions. Less expensive lenses, like the 50 Summicron, are no longer available in chrome. Â It has been suggested by some that they whole M9 grey paint experiment was an attempt to drive customers toward using only black lenses, but the response to the silver chrome M9-P seems to indicate that there is a substantial number of people who want silver chrome, in their cameras and possibly in their lenses. Your closest competitor for M mount lenses (Zeiss) makes a number of focal lengths in silver chrome. Â So, Leica, should you now begin to introduce more and more lenses in silver chrome? Â To keep on topic: 1. Everyone realizes that Leica cannot build lenses fast enough, and their is a substantial backlog today. This thread is about what Leica marketing might do, not what production is trying to do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 27, 2011 Posted June 27, 2011 Hi StephenPatterson, Take a look here Leica Chrome Lenses. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
earleygallery Posted June 27, 2011 Share #2 Â Posted June 27, 2011 So, Leica, should you now begin to introduce more and more lenses in silver chrome? Â Absolutely, special editions/limited runs at a premium price, why not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted June 27, 2011 Share #3 Â Posted June 27, 2011 Perhaps Leica should make the lenses with just the basic plate (copper, I think), and offer little doll clothes to cover the lens in choices of silver, black, grey, maybe even some tartans. Luigii could make some in custom tooled leather! I'd like one with a white lace skirt lens shade, please. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted June 27, 2011 Share #4 Â Posted June 27, 2011 Me too love chromes, I admit... , but I think that the "old-real-chrome-on-brass" is next to its end of life (and I'm happy to have had the opportunity to grab 21 + 24 asph + Elmarit 90 all in chrome); the silver anodized is much easier to accomplish as an alternative to the (classic... let's call it like this...) black; so probably I think that this could be the option for future versions of lenses, hoping they will not be all "specials"... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsh Posted June 27, 2011 Share #5 Â Posted June 27, 2011 The Chrome lenses are gorgeous, and in my 41 years of Leica use and ownership, I have owned 3 Chrome Lenses. a 50 mm Dual Range Summicron and a 35 Summicron with my original M4 and a 50 Summicron that stays on my little used Anthracite MP. All of my other lenses are black, by choice because they are typically lighter and they go well with either the black or the chrome bodies. Some feel there is a performance difference between the two, but I have never had issues with the black lenses. Â I hope Leica will produce more chromes lenses in all M focal lengths for those of you who like and prefer them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xmas Posted June 27, 2011 Share #6  Posted June 27, 2011 Hi  It seems to be like ladies fashion in skirt lengths... Leitz did not start doing chrome bodies until '33. They then did not do a large % of black paint (changing to black chrome) until the M4, '67 on. They restarted the BP about 2000.  So the marketing people have chrome, black anodised, black paint, silver anodised to play tunes on for lenses.  Ok and I forgot white, green, etc.  Noel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted June 27, 2011 Share #7 Â Posted June 27, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Silver chrome is a response to grey paint yuck. Â I have yet to see a silver anodized lens to judge the yuck factor, but I might surmise it is high. In which case the market will force a return to real chrome plate, hazmat factor and expense and weight be dammed. Â Second rate materials do not belong on a Leica. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elgenper Posted June 27, 2011 Share #8  Posted June 27, 2011 ....So, Leica, should you now begin to introduce more and more lenses in silver chrome? ....  I own a chrome M2 and a black M9. Also a handful of lenses, new and old, chrome and black. I´ve yet to see any significant differences in my images that are correlated to whether the lens and body are matched in finish or not. Nor do I feel that the mismatches are in any way unpleasant to look at.  So, I just don´t care.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted June 27, 2011 Share #9  Posted June 27, 2011 Black and Chrome are Groovy! Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/155437-leica-chrome-lenses/?do=findComment&comment=1716472'>More sharing options...
SJP Posted June 27, 2011 Share #10 Â Posted June 27, 2011 Gimme a pink one! Â Maybe Leica can use silver paint on the lenses ISO wasting rare earth metals, I have a small can available. That should cover their current production rate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted June 27, 2011 Share #11  Posted June 27, 2011 I own a chrome M2 and a black M9. Also a handful of lenses, new and old, chrome and black. I´ve yet to see any significant differences in my images that are correlated to whether the lens and body are matched in finish or not. Nor do I feel that the mismatches are in any way unpleasant to look at. So, I just don´t care....  That's true... ... finishing is a subject good for the moments in which we stop speaking of good photography and leave freeweeling to our Leica fetish side... ... I often think of this when carry and use my chrome Elmarit M 90 (150g MORE than the black... ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted June 27, 2011 Share #12 Â Posted June 27, 2011 I try not to predict what Leica will do, as we generally don't have all the facts required. Better to use what I have and re-evaluate as options change. Â On this specific issue, I have black and chrome Ms, but all black lenses. Don't care aesthetically for chrome lenses on black, nor for mismatched shades of chrome/grey together. But, others feel differently, or don't much care at all...doesn't make them bad people. Â Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZDavid Posted June 27, 2011 Share #13 Â Posted June 27, 2011 Changing styles and fashions, it's hard to say. See: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/film-forum/187656-new-film-m-leica.html for some new releases including a new monster Noctilux in silver chrome and a black M9 with silver dials and chrome lens. A black dial, chrome body on the M6 was known as a "panda" Leica; this is an anti-Panda. Early Leica also mixed chrome and black, and aesthetically I think it's fine. Nickel was also used. Â I don't mind silver grey at all -- it has a sort of industrial cool to it -- but I'm concerned paint doesn't wear as well, unless you really like that worn look. 'Course, as someone suggested, if that's the case, you could always use sandpaper. Â The popularity of black over chrome seems to alternate every few years. Same with hi-fi gear and TVs. Right now we seem to have been in a black phase but may be swinging back to chrome again. One material I can't stand the look of is silver-painted plastic (who are they kidding) but real metal -- aluminum cases -- is also proving popular. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted June 27, 2011 Share #14 Â Posted June 27, 2011 Hello Everybody, Â Chrome plating is a useful, durable process which has been around for a long time & its +'s are well known. No one needs to explain them. Â Sometimies when things occurs in the World which don't seem reflective of the current situation this happens because there is an unknown people are not considering. Â It is possible the reason Leica has been moving away from chrome plating has to do w/ things outside of its utility & beauty? Perhaps, for example, it might be environmental as per Cibachrome & Kodachrome both of which were producing results of first quality by todays standards while @ the same time having an environmental impact considered unacceptable today. Â Are there any metalurgists or chemists out there who might know or have an idea or perhaps someone in another field who might have something to contribute? Â Best Regards, Â Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyril Jayant Posted June 27, 2011 Share #15 Â Posted June 27, 2011 Absolutely, special editions/limited runs at a premium price, why not. Â All my ( I have only 2 ms) M cameras are Crome, I love it and have a 90 mm Cron Titanium which is the most beautiful in all. The other lenses are black and I wish I had them too in crome finish..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander †Posted June 28, 2011 Share #16  Posted June 28, 2011 Chromium plating is a process which has environmental issues. Traditionally it is done in a bath containing a high concentration of chromium trioxide (also known as chromic acid) and sulphuric acid. On copper or brass a plating of nickel is given first. The electro-efficiency is low (10%), giving rise to a large volume of hydrogen and oxygen being evolved along with the accompanying corrosive and carcinogenic spray. Fume extraction and fluorine based foam additives are used to help keep the spray under control. A modification of the chromium plating solution gives rise to black chrome, a deposit of chromium metal with contaminants from the plating bath.  In recent years chemists have developed a system of plating from the safer trivalent chromium salts such as chromium trichloride but the results are not as good and the colour of the chromium deposited is darker.  All of this being said chromium plating from chromium trioxide baths is widely used, the environmental issues just adding to the cost. Today there is more chromium plate appearing on cars so Leica should have no problem in sourcing a plating company to carry out the work.  Chromium metal is very hard and long lasting, thick deposits being widely used in the aerospace and similar industries as a bearing surface for its slipperyness and resistance to wear.  Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenPatterson Posted June 28, 2011 Author Share #17  Posted June 28, 2011 Silver chrome is a response to grey paint yuck. I have yet to see a silver anodized lens to judge the yuck factor, but I might surmise it is high. In which case the market will force a return to real chrome plate, hazmat factor and expense and weight be dammed.  Second rate materials do not belong on a Leica.  I agree 100%. I suspect the reason for the M9s being introduced in black and grey paint has more to do with Leica being completely vertically integrated and profit centric than environmentally friendly. Now, I'm glad that Leica is focused on profits, because that keeps the ball rolling, but it's not always about putting forward the very best product.  I don't like chrome because it's pretty, I like it because it's durable!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted June 28, 2011 Share #18 Â Posted June 28, 2011 Considering the volumes of Leica lenses (in both senses... numbers and dimensions) the environmental impact of traditional chroming I think should be minimal, even more if one consider that VERY seldom leica lenses are treated as garbage... ... no issue at all regarding disposing. Probably, is more a question of cost (direct and logistic) that pushes them to gradually abandon this traditional finishing... we have clearly seen how is difficult for them, today, to keep production at the level of demand... and they have a rather big number of lenses in their list... to maintain for many of them a second version in chrome should add complications in scheduling and 3rd parties management. The solution could be to make chromes with an extra cost charged to the buyer, but this wouldn't be nice... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZDavid Posted June 28, 2011 Share #19 Â Posted June 28, 2011 Think of bathroom fittings. All chrome, excellent quality and very durable. I visited Hansgrohe's factory in Germany (you can try out showers yourself at Shower World!) There is no talk of switching to painted shewer fittings or tapware. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted June 28, 2011 Share #20 Â Posted June 28, 2011 Considering the volumes of Leica lenses (in both senses... numbers and dimensions) the environmental impact of traditional chroming I think should be minimal, even more if one consider that VERY seldom leica lenses are treated as garbage... ... no issue at all regarding disposing. Probably, is more a question of cost (direct and logistic) that pushes them to gradually abandon this traditional finishing... we have clearly seen how is difficult for them, today, to keep production at the level of demand... and they have a rather big number of lenses in their list... to maintain for many of them a second version in chrome should add complications in scheduling and 3rd parties management. The solution could be to make chromes with an extra cost charged to the buyer, but this wouldn't be nice... Â Luigi I think you are right, it's more a logistical issue - certainly it must be easier for Leica to manufacture/have manufactured one type of lens assembly and finish, hence my orignial comment, that I think more 'limited edition' runs of chrome lenses would be more likely, but it's fair to assume that they will cost more! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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