250swb Posted June 24, 2011 Share #121 Posted June 24, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) For less DoF, less noise and faster wides? Well yes, but if you have very fast wides and less DoF and (perhaps) less noise wouldn't that mean Leica are really designing a system that takes over from the M system? I mean, if this new system did all the things an M can, whats the point of carrying it on? If on the other hand there is some market demarcation, like slower lenses, a sensor thats not just the next one down, but two steps away from FF, there is a reason to keep both going. Be careful what you wish for. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 24, 2011 Posted June 24, 2011 Hi 250swb, Take a look here Compact interchangeable lens camera coming 09/12. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
pop Posted June 24, 2011 Share #122 Posted June 24, 2011 ... I mean, if this new system did all the things an M can, whats the point of carrying it on? ... If it did all the things an M can, it had an opto-mechanical rangefinder or a lookalike. That's one of the strengths of the M, that you can manually set the distance with a high degree a precision. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted June 24, 2011 Share #123 Posted June 24, 2011 Well yes, but if you have very fast wides and less DoF and (perhaps) less noise wouldn't that mean Leica are really designing a system that takes over from the M system? I mean, if this new system did all the things an M can, whats the point of carrying it on?... We would have what the M system does not offer (long tele, macro, "R solution", life view and so on) whilst the Ms would remain the only digi rangefinders in town. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted June 24, 2011 Share #124 Posted June 24, 2011 Well yes, but if you have very fast wides and less DoF and (perhaps) less noise wouldn't that mean Leica are really designing a system that takes over from the M system? I mean, if this new system did all the things an M can, whats the point of carrying it on? If on the other hand there is some market demarcation, like slower lenses, a sensor thats not just the next one down, but two steps away from FF, there is a reason to keep both going. Be careful what you wish for. Steve Even if they find the way to implement a "good" EVF... it will never be like the clarity and feel of the M VF/RF... probably, in itself the main reason for lot of people (here, expecially... ) still love a lot "the M way". Imho, Leica Mktg evaluates that there IS a "market space" a "void" (even in pure pricing terms) UNDER the M line but OVER the compact/high level APS non reflex cameras... and, not pretending to be a marketing expert, I could agree... the first inroads in this direction, after all, have been by some brands (Sony, Samsung, Panasonic...) which are not at the top of classic photography heritage... Canon/Nikon "stay at the window"... IF Leica can succeed in being the first in elevating the proposal within that line it could be a good strike... even if, obviously, the other big guns can react very quickly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted June 24, 2011 Share #125 Posted June 24, 2011 We would have what the M system does not offer (long tele, macro, "R solution", life view and so on) whilst the Ms would remain the only digi rangefinders in town. If it has all the things the M system cannot offer, and all the things it does offer, then count me in. I'll start selling my M equipment soon because I don't buy the mystic of 'the last rangefinder in town', its just that its nearest to what I like. I couldn't care less if it was replaced by something with the same form factor, only better. Nearly forty years using a M and I'm still ready and waiting for perfection when it arrives. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lykaman Posted June 24, 2011 Share #126 Posted June 24, 2011 If it’s a true Leica not a rebranded P A N Y...bring it On... My wifey wants to eat on a regular basis, but hey” I say, look at those lovely Leicas on the shelf..and all those lenses... It’s the American Dream...you want it, go get it””........... My latest (advertised as portable) -- Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/154955-compact-interchangeable-lens-camera-coming-0912/?do=findComment&comment=1713901'>More sharing options...
dhsimmonds Posted June 25, 2011 Share #127 Posted June 25, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) This is the spec that Leica will need to match or beat. This is from "Sony Alpha Rumors". It is due to be released in August 2011, so not in 16months time! The focusing speed and accuracy of Sony's latest cameras would have been quite unbelievable just one year ago! "The Sony A77 will be Sony’s new top APS-C model and replace the now very old Sony A700 It has a newly developed 24 Megapixel sensor which we have been told will deliver a crazy ISO performance. Specs are not 100% finalized yet but it looks like the ISO range goes from 100 up to 102.400 ISO. The A77 uses a new double Bionz processor and a newly developed 3 million dot OLED EVF. It takes more than 10 frames per seconds and has 11 cross AF points. Of course it can record videos at FullHD. It has a new USB 3.0 connection (with transmission speeds of up to 5 Gbit/s). Both cameras (the A77 and A65) will use the new translucent technology (there will be no optical viewfinder Sony camera anymore!). That allows Sony to reduce the production costs and we expect the A77 body only price to be around $1.000 only! That’s much less than the competition:" This camera will take both full frame and the APS-C computed Alpha lenses as well as other lenses with appropriate adaptors. If it is anything like it's predecessor it will also be reasonably dust and water sealed. Now that's one heck of a challenge for Leica.......especially at the price!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phancj Posted June 25, 2011 Share #128 Posted June 25, 2011 Though almost none of sony's offerings can ever be termed shabby sony has never been in the league of nikon/canon for want of better marketing or for whatever reason. Also, although it is known fact they supply sensors to nikon I believe using the same sensor the nikon has significant better high iso performance by comparison. Not that sony cameras are not good, but if history is anything to go by....nevertheless no one knows, perhaps this IS sony's killer camera! As for pricing we may as well forget the issue with leica, they have somewhat a different perspective (to put it euphemistically) when it comes to pricing! CJ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HelgeK Posted June 25, 2011 Share #129 Posted June 25, 2011 Mirrorless APS-C is no big deal, Sony and Samsung already have models for sale. Both are already compatible with R lenses via third party adapters. What Leica bosses said is intriguing "at least APS-C" hinting at bigger than AP-C. Current M8/M9 is mirrorless already, all it takes is to swap CCD with CMOS and fit EVF instead of optical RF. Easy said than done though as few serious tweaks will be needed, first being sourcing EVF fitting of Leica quality. Providing they deliver FF CSC (compact system camera) I will buy. That's the point. Leica will have no success with a sensor smaller than full frame. Sony and the other's are not bad, but much cheaper than Leica ever can be. Only in case they will offer the only FF available on the market they will have a chance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted June 25, 2011 Share #130 Posted June 25, 2011 Now that's one heck of a challenge for Leica.......especially at the price!! HI Dave First of all, I'm really excited by the A77 - it sounds like a real step forwards, hopefully there will be the lenses to match. I'll certainly be the first in the line to get one. . . . . . . . . . . but I wonder whether Leica need to compete; it would be fantastic if they could get their mitts on that Sony sensor though. Anyway - who says that they're going for the traditional SLR type form factor, seems a little unlikely to me. CJ - I think that Sony's recent products have been right up there - The A900 was 1/2 price of the D3x, but with the same sensor - Nikon made more of the high iSO, but I think that Sony did much better with the colour and file quality. Their problem (IMHO) has been that they don't have the infrastructure to attract the professionals, and they needed to get over the idea of products with such short lifecycles. The current firmware upgrade for a raft of existing cameras shows that they are thinking along the right lines. If the A77 is as good as the rumors, then I think Canon and Nikon really do need to start being very worried. But I don't think Lieca needs to even try to compete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry_R Posted June 26, 2011 Share #131 Posted June 26, 2011 Earlier than next Photokina - there will be also mirrorless NEX-7 too, spec similar to A77, accepting "M" lenses via adapter. Focusing will be supported by great EVF and so called focus color peaking. I personally also hope for FF EVIL from Leica. No reason to compete on APS-C field with Sony, Samsung, soon Ricoh, probably Pentax... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phancj Posted June 26, 2011 Share #132 Posted June 26, 2011 HI DaveFirst of all, I'm really excited by the A77 - it sounds like a real step forwards, hopefully there will be the lenses to match. I'll certainly be the first in the line to get one. . . . . . . . . . . but I wonder whether Leica need to compete; it would be fantastic if they could get their mitts on that Sony sensor though. Anyway - who says that they're going for the traditional SLR type form factor, seems a little unlikely to me. CJ - I think that Sony's recent products have been right up there - The A900 was 1/2 price of the D3x, but with the same sensor - Nikon made more of the high iSO, but I think that Sony did much better with the colour and file quality. Their problem (IMHO) has been that they don't have the infrastructure to attract the professionals, and they needed to get over the idea of products with such short lifecycles. The current firmware upgrade for a raft of existing cameras shows that they are thinking along the right lines. If the A77 is as good as the rumors, then I think Canon and Nikon really do need to start being very worried. But I don't think Lieca needs to even try to compete. I also wish for Sony, oly, panny, everyone to up this game to coerce nikon canon and leica to NOT rest on their laurels....but leica is in an enviable position when it comes to pricing and anything they launch with similar specs command a premium in price somewhat. Like it or not by virtue of their pricing they'll always stick to the low volume high margin game, befitting a boutique manufacturer. Persoanlly I'll wager it'll not be a FF, most likely APS-C or H, though I hope I'm wrong. CJ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_w Posted June 26, 2011 Share #133 Posted June 26, 2011 Leica have done a fantastic job -- to move from near bankruptcy to three excellent and successful lines of product over the last few years. All products recognised leaders in image quality in their respective sectors. Leica are punching way above their weight as a mere 200m euro company up against huge global corporations, in an industry which has been completely revolutionised in the past decade. In purely business terms this is close to amazing. If it were a business school case study there would be a best-selling book from a Harvard business professor about 'how to succeed among giants'. I don't think we acknowledge this nearly enough in our forum discussions. Now they are announcing a fourth product line. Based on their track record, who would not be excited about what this means for photographers? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted June 26, 2011 Share #134 Posted June 26, 2011 who would not be excited about what this means for photographers? easy .........the photographers that are taking photographs and not playing "I want, I wish" games they are too busy doing. ps the majority of people taking photos have no interest in leica ..........giants still make giant sales minnows still make minnow sales Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecaton Posted June 26, 2011 Share #135 Posted June 26, 2011 It's 2011, trying to use my cameras of which I accumulated too many. Like some of you, maybe?) no time for getting over-excited and speculating about future systems. Some of the comments read as if there was no photography and no life for photographers without Leica's future system. It's the "Boxster" strategy they are working on, read Porsche's history. The right thing to do, no question, but it won't change photography. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuny Posted June 26, 2011 Share #136 Posted June 26, 2011 While speculating, here's an exceptionally minor thing to consider: We have M, S and X cameras followed by numbers indicating serially which camera in that lettered range the camera is. What letter will identify the new range? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archiver Posted June 26, 2011 Share #137 Posted June 26, 2011 I'm very intrigued by this new camera system. You know, at first I thought that Leica would not want to make this compatible with M-mount lenses as they would not want to cut into their rangefinder sales. But there is another angle to this. By making it compatible with RF lenses, it opens the door for those who do NOT have a Leica RF to collect the lenses and later be tempted into 'trading up'. And it would give RF users a compact system with AF that can also act as RF backup, handling high ISO and tele work where the RF's might lag behind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted June 26, 2011 Share #138 Posted June 26, 2011 While speculating, here's an exceptionally minor thing to consider: We have M, S and X cameras followed by numbers indicating serially which camera in that lettered range the camera is. What letter will identify the new range? X to become a system. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted June 26, 2011 Share #139 Posted June 26, 2011 ... We have M, S and X cameras followed by numbers indicating serially which camera in that lettered range the camera is. That's the case only for "recent" cameras of the M series. The M3 was before the M2, for instance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted June 26, 2011 Share #140 Posted June 26, 2011 While speculating, here's an exceptionally minor thing to consider: We have M, S and X cameras followed by numbers indicating serially which camera in that lettered range the camera is. What letter will identify the new range? Unless there is a ban on vowels, ‘E’ would be an obvious choice. ‘E’ for EVIL. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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