agro Posted June 9, 2011 Share #1 Posted June 9, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) I am quite disappointed by treatment from Solms. A few weeks back my M8 shutter died (11,000 or so actuations). I must admit, that hasd not happened to me with any other camera I’ve used and I started shooting in 1972. I have sent the M8 to a Melbourne based Camera Clinic. They are very supportive and passed my concerns to Leica Germany. What do I get in return? “There isn’t any known issue with Leica shutter therefore we will not cover the costs...” The manual states the shutter is build to last at least 100,000 actuations. How does 11,000 justify failure? Yours very dissapointed Agro Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 Hi agro, Take a look here Leica support concerns. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
J_Thompson Posted June 9, 2011 Share #2 Posted June 9, 2011 Is your M8 still under warranty? If so, then the repair should be covered. Otherwise, any other repair is up to their discretion. A contract is a contract. Sorry, but that's just the facts of life. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted June 9, 2011 Share #3 Posted June 9, 2011 Sorry to hear that you have had a problem and of course I do not know what has caused a problem with your shutter. As far as I know the shutter assembly is a Copal design made in large numbers and has been the same basic unit from the R cameras and forward. It must have been used in many other brands too and in much larger numbers in those. Assuming that your warranty has expired I don't think that you have any claim on Leica Camera however disappointed you no doubt feel. I think that your thread title is a bit tough on Leica Camera support though. No-one guarantees their cameras for life that I know of and the Leica Camera international guarantee is two years rather than the one of other brands. If it is any consolation if you agree to pay for the repair the complete camera will be checked and adjusted as needed and all of the camera guaranteed for twelve months from the repair. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 9, 2011 Share #4 Posted June 9, 2011 Up to what point do you feel that Leica has to provide free service for out of warranty gear? I might add that, in general, Leica is very generous in this respect. But after the warranty has expired it is a courtesy, not an obligation and up to the discretion of the manufacturer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted June 9, 2011 Share #5 Posted June 9, 2011 I am not sure if I understood agro right. Who gave you the reply? Was it the camera shop where you sent it or was it Leica in Solms? If it was the camera shop, why not send it to Solms directly? There should be no further costs as you already have to exspect to pay for the repair - but perhaps Leica will change it's mind after they have seen your camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted June 9, 2011 Share #6 Posted June 9, 2011 Uliwer the mentioned repairer is Camera Clinic who are an authorised repairer for the national distributor here. Neither the distributor nor their agent perform any complex work in-house on the M8/M9, as far as I am aware. In any event if there was any request by the customer that work should be performed for free that would be referred to Solms. They evidently have sent Agros' camera on to Solms and they have advised them that the camera is out of warranty and therefore will be a chargeable repair. In fact they recently sent a lens for me as well. For mine, I was initially sent an estimate as the lens was actually made quite some time ago. I contacted Customer Service and politely explained that it was actually opened box old stock from the distributor (which the distributor confirmed), I was the first buyer, I had registered the lens on purchase on their website and I provided a copy of the sales invoice from the dealer proving that the international warranty was still current. Having said all of that I had got 6 bit coding done elsewhere and Solms were entitled to void the warranty on the basis that someone else had serviced the lens. I received a very polite and prompt response from Solms apologising for the confusion and the CLA (for slightly stiff focus) is being done at no charge, including even adjustment to the M8/M9 standard. In other words better than new adjustment for this (2004) lens. So I wanted to report a very positive experience with Customer Service as has been the case for me on every occasion that I have spoken with them. I am not sure if I understood agro right. Who gave you the reply? Was it the camera shop where you sent it or was it Leica in Solms? If it was the camera shop, why not send it to Solms directly? There should be no further costs as you already have to exspect to pay for the repair - but perhaps Leica will change it's mind after they have seen your camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
agro Posted June 9, 2011 Author Share #7 Posted June 9, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Well, I must admit I got emotional, but wouldn't you? If this world is all about just contracts and small print all I say is; good luck to all of us! Just recently my car's engine seized. I got seriously worried. 6 months out of warranty. Guess what? The manufacturer said: "that does not happen to our engines" we will replace it free parts and labour". Leica M camera is the Porsche of cameras, and I simply did not expect a shutter failure after 10% of it's manufacture stated life. Funny though, I am not alone: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/178043-m8-shutter-caput.html All those shutters dead about the same no of actuations. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted June 9, 2011 Share #8 Posted June 9, 2011 As I've stated before in the forum, a Canon 1DS that I sold to a friend has just had a shutter failure at 30k actuations. Oddly enough he blames neither myself nor Canon - its well below the design life of the shutter, but so what? Things fail, sometimes manufacturers do repairs that they may not be obliged to (I too had a car engine failure and the manufacturer required full evidence of servicing before they would honour their warranty) but generally, if there is no clear manufacturing fault, they do no. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 9, 2011 Share #9 Posted June 9, 2011 As for shutter faults, they can have a multitude of causes obviously, but a major problem with metal shutters is that even a small grain of sand or grit can kill them. Being 2 cm more forward and without mirror protection the M8/9 shutter seems to me to be quite vulnerable. So if your shutter died for this reason, and that would be an excellent reason for Leica to make this a paid repair, you should ask Leica to certify this and claim it on insurance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
agro Posted June 9, 2011 Author Share #10 Posted June 9, 2011 Thank you Jaap, Never thought of that. I do take extreme care when changing lenses but a small blow of wind could have caused an issue. I shall follow up on that. I guess I should change the title, shouldn't I? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtorrents Posted June 9, 2011 Share #11 Posted June 9, 2011 Agro, as you can see here http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/178043-m8-shutter-caput.html my experience with Customer Support has been excellent. When my shutter decided to kill itself I talked to Leica directly over the phone, and I sent a polite letter explaining my case. Customer Support at Solms always tryed to help me and I got my camera in a week. So, based on my experience, I can assure that Leica CS is one of the best... hope you solve the shutter issue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 9, 2011 Share #12 Posted June 9, 2011 . I guess I should change the title, shouldn't I? Want me to do it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
agro Posted June 9, 2011 Author Share #13 Posted June 9, 2011 Japp, Pls do. jtorrents, I'd be very happy if you could give me their phone number. I could not find it anywhere on the Leica website. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted June 9, 2011 Share #14 Posted June 9, 2011 Leica Camera AG - Service and Repair Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtorrents Posted June 9, 2011 Share #15 Posted June 9, 2011 Agro, try this link Leica Camera AG - Service - headquarters germany Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Verrips Posted June 9, 2011 Share #16 Posted June 9, 2011 I am quite disappointed by treatment from Solms.A few weeks back my M8 shutter died (11,000 or so actuations). I must admit, that hasd not happened to me with any other camera I’ve used and I started shooting in 1972. I have sent the M8 to a Melbourne based Camera Clinic. They are very supportive and passed my concerns to Leica Germany. What do I get in return? “There isn’t any known issue with Leica shutter therefore we will not cover the costs...” The manual states the shutter is build to last at least 100,000 actuations. How does 11,000 justify failure? Yours very dissapointed Agro I think you stigmatize Leica too easy. More people do when they have to pay for service........... If the camera run out of warranty, you just have bad luck. It would be very kind to replace the shutter free of charge, but that is a choice a company has to make for themself. I Leica replace every broken-down that just run out of warranty, the R&D budget will shrink...... That it never happend to another camera of yours and you use cameras since 1972 does not say a thing about the quality of one or the other. Call it luck:D. I hope your problem will be fixed and that the cost will not be skyhigh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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