HELP!! asph or pre-asph lenses?

[jing7600]

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I am SOOO confused! A new Leica convert with limited budget, I need to find my first best all around lens. I have a very active baby and my husband and I love to travel so taking portraits of my family and the places we go to is my passion in taking pictures. I know I want a 35mm - but which one? Summilux or Summicron? pre-asph or asph? I want the dreamy look, one which doesnt offer such a harsh contrast for portraits and yet sharp. Any Leica pro out there who's willing to share with me their expertise? THANKS in advance! Also, if a 35mm is my 1st one, what is the next last lens?A Noctilux .95?

[adan]

"I want the dreamy look, one which doesnt offer such a harsh contrast for portraits and yet sharp."

 

Definitely pre-ASPH - 35 Summilux is REALLY dreamy, 35 Summicron is sharper but still low contrast.

 

Of course I'm biased: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/customer-forum/45854-praise-mandler-lenses.html

[250swb]

Don't forget that a 'dreamy look' can be done with software, so perhaps a sharp modern lens is a better option? Then you don't have to endure all your pictures looking 'dreamy'

 

 

Steve

[lars_bergquist]

The qualities you want are mostly associated with old 50mm lenses, not 35mm. A good, inexpensive "baby lens" would be a collapsible, first version (1957–1972) 50mm Elmar 1:2.8. Many slightly fuzzy lenses are really "failed sharp lenses" i.e. they are pretty sharp on axis but get progressively softer in the direction of the corners. This lens has very even performance across the entire field. It is just slightly "dreamy" wide open, much less at f:4 and gets pretty sharp all over at mid-apertures. It works beautifully on a M9. You can collapse the lens without any problems. Just remember not to mount or dismount the lens when collapsed, only when fully extended and locked.

 

There is a more technical discussion of just these matters in the adjacent thread "Psychological barrier : old lenses".

 

The old man from the Kodachrome Age

[Xmas]

Hi Jing

 

Welcome expect lots of opinions.

 

If you are a photog, and not a fuddy duddy,... then there are a range of manufacturers, and badges. Cosina, Voightlander, Zeiss, Konica, Canon, etc.,... cost and performance varies, e.g. some are cult/low volume, ou are not paying for performance.

 

The Leica Asphs have been designed to be as small as possible and have excellent wide aperture performance. By comparison some of the Zeiss M lenses are big.

 

If you use digital then some people ae disturbed by specular highlights (blowing - i.e. all 111111...111) the asphs are all high contrast and wont help this syndrome, you can set compensation to underexpose say 2/3 stop, and/or use a lower contrast lens.

 

If you are using a digital camera and 2nd hand lenses you may need them recalibrated, even if they are quite modern, Leica have changed the tolerance bands (!), many of the lenses are in short supply as rangefinders in general and Leica in particular have suffered a resurgence.

 

A 35mm is not suitable for shots of babies eyelashes, baby will look distorted, ok for pram shots of teddy flying out of pram though. Subjective so you may feel it is ok.

 

The nicest 35mm lenses are the

 

summaron f/2.8 '58 on if undamaged peerless performance singe coated, prone to self etch

summarit current ditto multi coated

 

some people have both use on bright or dull days

 

The single coated will pastel the colors and hold shadows and highlights by compressing the contrast range.

 

You may only ever use a 35mm.

 

Noel

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Jing,

 

Welcome to the Forum. Congratulations for your new baby.

 

A lot of very good advice above.

 

Altho I would do things a little differently.

 

Speaking full frame I would recommend a person wanting to learn to photograph a new baby, a new family or pretty much anything else whether on a limited budget or no budget begin w/ a last optical model 90mm Elmarit-M.

 

Dreamy pictures or not.

 

This said by someone who has & uses a 35mm Summicron version I for most of their photography & who has done so for years.

 

Who like many others on this Forum has spent many years being you photographing new babies, new families & all that goes with it.

 

A 90mm lens teaches a lot about composition by requiring the user to remove a substantial portion of the foreground & surrounding material from the World in front of them & more concentrate on the subject under consideration. It requires a photographer keep a certain distance & therefore develop a degree of perspective & learn to balance elements in a scene in order to create a pleasing composition. It is a good teacher.

 

A lot of photography is self-taught. A lot of the parameters are defined to a greater or lesser degree by the equipment chosen. Lens choice creates a number of those parameters.

 

A 35 is a good choice once you understand composition, perspective & such & what goes w/ them. When you can look @ a scene & know where to go & what to do to create those things.

 

As to "dreamy": It may well be the "dreamy" you are looking for is the "limited depth of field" that starts to be somewhat apparent in photos taken w/ lenses of around 90mm. Long enough to create some effect but not so long they become difficult to use for someone who is learning. Especially if self-taught.

 

Don't forget to ask lots of questions. This is the right spot.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

[lars_bergquist]

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Dear Michael,

 

I would very much like to agree with you on the merits of 90mm lenses. Still, I would not recommend them to a beginning rangefinder photographer, because they are, um, a bit difficult to rangefind with. By the nature of things, a 90mm lens on a RH camera demands much more precise focusing than shorter focal lengths do. 35mm is far more forgiving, but you are right, you have to learn and internalise, i.e. make intuitive, a lo about composing pictures. So to me, 50mm is an excellent compromise.

 

To me, 35mm and 50mm are actually both 'standard lenses', short and long, respectively. They are both about symmetrically placed around what should normally be regarded as 'the' standard focal length, i.e. 43mm (the format diagonal). I use 35mm at home and about town, 50mm in the country. Spontaneously, I would describe myself as a 35mm man. But my practical sense makes me recommend 50mm to the O.P.

 

The old man from the Age of the 3.5cm Elmar

[budrichard]

"A new Leica convert with limited budget, I need to find my first best all around lens. "

 

You do not require an ASPH lens for your work as stated nor will your budget probably allow for one. A 35mm Summicron of later vintage in Mint to Very Good condition from a reliable source will be sufficient. I used a 35mm Summicron RF lens on an M3 for a couple of decades and the results are just about as good as my present 35mm Summilux ASPH.

 

"Also, if a 35mm is my 1st one, what is the next last lens?A Noctilux .95? "

 

You will not require another lens for your work.

The 0.95 Noctilux is a very specific lens intended for low light usage and out of your price range anyway. I think you will find as many have, that a 50mm is not that much use anyway. I have two 50mm's, a 50mm DR and 50 Elmar-M, I never use them.-Dick

[lars_bergquist]

[ ... ] I think you will find as many have, that a 50mm is not that much use anyway. I have two 50mm's, a 50mm DR and 50 Elmar-M, I never use them.-Dick

 

There you see, M photographers are about as opinionated as cats. To my mind, and in my practice, 50mm is possibly the most versatile and useful of all focal lengths. It is of course 75mm that is not much use .

 

Still, I agree that if you decide on 35mm, a Noctilux, if you can find one, is extremely expensive, extremely large and heavy, and quite difficult to work with wide open. A good companion lens with 35mm might indeed be 75mm, though 35 + 90mm is the classical combo from the age of photojournalism. The current 75mm Summarit is a very good lens indeed.

 

The old man again

[MarkP]

Hi, I would differ somewhat from the opinions above based upon what you have asked us

 

Let's look at it:

M9

Limited budget

Start with only one lens with focal length (FL) of ~35mm

'Older-style' look from the lens (you all know what I mean without defining it further)

Uses: portraits (incl. kids) & travel.

 

For most Leica users 35mm & 50mm are 'standard' FLs depending on the photographer.

35mm is too short for portraits unless one accepts some facial distortion when close up (not a good look for kids), or wants to set the subject in a broader context.

50mm can often, but not always, be too long for travel, groups, etc. But is a nice and acceptable 'short' portrait lens with NO distortion.

However, the cons of each of these FLs is the strength of the other and why many of us have both FLs.

 

Unless you change your mind about your requirements I think you should consider a 40mm Summicron:

best compromise between both of the above FL's.

older design lens will give the 'look' you are after

even an outstanding example is relatively cheap on the used market

lightweight

(another option would be the very good Cosina Voigtlander 40mm f1.4 Nokton which will give you more options with respect to low light and shallow depth of field images.

 

I hope this helps as choosing lenses is always a difficult decision.

 

Good luck.

 

Mark

[pico]

Permit me to take your question from the problematic view - children are difficult to photograph because they move about so much - so I'd suggest a Leica V-Lux 2 for its autofocus and excellent and variable focal length lens (or its Panasonic equivalent which would allow you to use other Leica lenses - but manually).

 

You can 'Dream' photos in post-processing and while an expert in lenses can tell a post-processed OOF and soft-focus, most cannot and do not care.

 

With the autofocus you will have more success. It takes a while to become good with a RF, and chances are you will have a year of learning with unfortunate outcomes.

[luigi bertolotti]

I suppose you have a M9... if you have limited budget, frst of all forget the Noctilux, now and after... ; and, personally, I'd stay on a 50, choosing a Summicron... very trivial advice... but a lens one will never regret to have: the same, un-asph, if you are really sure about willing a 35.

[enboe]

Another free opinion, and worth every cent:

 

There are a few factors that contribute to the "dreamy" look, otherwise referred to as bokeh. Two of them are the focal length (longer is better) and maximum f/stop (wider is better) of the lens. Another factor is the use of aspheric versus only spheric-section elements in the lens design. Many (not all) of the most revered bokeh lenses are all spheric-section designs. The current version in this family is the 35/2.5 Summarit, an excellent lens by all accounts. You will compromise sharpness in the corners ever so slightly over the aspheric designs, but it is seldom that is where the subject of the photo is located. I would not hesitate one second to start with a 35/2.5 Summarit. Other lenses in this family include the famous 35 Summicron version IV and the 1960's vintage 8-element 35 Summicron. The newer lenses do have a distinct advantage for flare resistance, but I still recommend purchasing and using a hood with every lens you have.

 

Now, on to a second focal length. I would give strong consideration to a 75mm as the second lens. There is a 75/2.5 Summarit, an excellent twin to the 35/2.5, and a 75/2.0 APO/ASPH Summicron, a very high performance lens, and good twin to the 35/2.0/ASPH. Same comment on using hoods applies.

 

Now the off-beat advice - don't buy your second lens until you've lived with your first lens for at least 90 days. Taking the time to learn the lens "personality" is time very well spent.

 

Have fun.

 

Eric

[MarkP]

Eric,

good advice (and the Summarit is readily available).

 

Mark

[IkarusJohn]

I like Eric's advice.

 

Look around for a 35 Summicron Asph 2nd hand. I sold one the other day in excellent condition for a sensible price.

 

For a second lens, I'd look at a 90 or a 75 Summicron, also second hand. I'm not such a fan of the 90 focal length for the reasons given by Lars.

 

My most commonly used lenses are the 50 & 35.

 

Cheers

John

[sheikhrafiq79]

plz cosider a light situation also for dreamy look