Twotone Posted January 3, 2011 Share #1 Posted January 3, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi guys, first of all thanks to the owners of this great site, my name is Tony and I'm looking forward to spending some time here:D Anyway, I've just purchased an M3, my first Leica and my first rangefinder camera, from a dealer in Scotland and have to say that for the age of the camera I'm absolutely amazed at the quality of it. I had a look on e-bay before buying one but decided to pay a premium for the dealer's rep and warranty which was worth it being, as I am, a complete novice with these types of cameras. Of course I've used film cameras before (I've had a Nikon EM for 30 years) and have recently bought a Nikon digital camera and really like using it but I decided to get back into using a film camera and wanted to buy a quality one which is why I've gone for a Leica M3. For anyone interested the M3 (body only) cost me £549 just last week and really is in excellent condition. I phoned the dealer before buying and he told me what the condition was of all of the M3s that he had of which he had six for sale. The serial number is 1,000,xxx and comes from a batch of 4000 dated 05 July 1960, according to the serial page on cameraquest. The camera isn't mint and came without a box or manual or anything else but it has obviously been well looked after and hasn't been abused with the viewfinder very clean and easy to see the framelines however there is a very small piece of the vulcanite missing on the film door below the film indicator and it has some marks around the strap lugs, top plate (at the hot shoe) and on the base plate but overall I'm please with it plus the dealer has a seven day return policy and there is a four month warranty on the camera. If anyone is interested I can post some pics of the camera later on, just ask! To the main point of this post now for those of you who have lost the will to live:) I've been looking about at lenses and have decided to try to buy either a Rigid or DR (with goggles) Summicron M 50mm F2 series one prime lens or if someone can recommend me and alternative 50mm Leica prime lens then I'm all ears. The dealer I bought the camera from has a Rigid Summicron from 1958 that has recently been serviced by Leica ( June 2010) with documentation however they are looking for £600 for the lens and there is another one from another UK dealer on e-bay but this one is a DR with goggles and seems to be a better price at £670 odd but I think both lenses are expensive. Can anyone advise on what I can expect to pay for one of these lenses or are the two above decent prices? I basically just want to shoot with the one lens and I want to be able to shoot without flash and in low light but I want a sharp image which is why I am looking at the F2 lens, I don't think I need to consider the 1.4 F lenses or can afford one of those. I've looked at the Cannon lens but those seem to be around the £300 mark and I really would like a Leica lens on the M3 but not a black one I might, at a later date, buy a 90mm lens but that is for another thread:D Thanks in advance for any replies or advice and also, thanks for reading. Regards, Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 3, 2011 Posted January 3, 2011 Hi Twotone, Take a look here New Leica M3 owner seeking lens advice. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
UliWer Posted January 3, 2011 Share #2 Posted January 3, 2011 The rigid summicron is a classical lens for the M3. In my opinion more practical than the dual range version, which has the same optics but is heavier and more clumsy with the goggles. It is softer than it's modern companions but still a pleasingly good lens. The prices you mention seem to be o.k. You should consider some costs for a CLA for the camera. As it is 50 years old, you should exspect that it needs some professional care. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted January 3, 2011 Share #3 Posted January 3, 2011 I agree that the Summicron 50 is a very good lens, however if the expense is too much, you might look for a Summitar 50mm. I got a very good one for 258 Euro with an aftermarket lens shade. The trick is to find the post-war Summitar (which is coated), but not one so late that it has the hex shapped aperture. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twotone Posted January 3, 2011 Author Share #4 Posted January 3, 2011 The rigid summicron is a classical lens for the M3. In my opinion more practical than the dual range version, which has the same optics but is heavier and more clumsy with the goggles. It is softer than it's modern companions but still a pleasingly good lens. The prices you mention seem to be o.k. You should consider some costs for a CLA for the camera. As it is 50 years old, you should exspect that it needs some professional care. Thanks UliWer, I am definitely considering the rigid lens from the dealer given that it has recently been to Lieca (no fungus) and has documents relating to the service. Regarding CLA the dealer had an older M3 which had just been serviced (don't know if it was Leica who serviced it though) but it was a very early serial number of around 700, xxx and a DS model but it was £50 cheaper, it had documents relating to the service however. I'm going to wait until I get a lens and shoot some film before I send my own camera away for a CLA. There's a place in Luton I believe although they are not taking any cameras in for service at the moment. As far as I can tell the only thing on the camera that seems that might need adjusting is the preview lever which sits at about 45 degrees to the lens mount, most other cameras I've looked at shows the lever parallel to the lens mount but it does move towards the lens and the view-finder changes when you do move the lever. Regards, Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twotone Posted January 3, 2011 Author Share #5 Posted January 3, 2011 I agree that the Summicron 50 is a very good lens, however if the expense is too much, you might look for a Summitar 50mm. I got a very good one for 258 Euro with an aftermarket lens shade. The trick is to find the post-war Summitar (which is coated), but not one so late that it has the hex shapped aperture. Thanks Pico I'll look out for one of those, how fast are they? The dealer I bought the camera from has a Summicron 50 collapsible screw-mount (1954 I think) for £350 plus post but I'd have to buy an adaptor and that would take the price of the lens to about £400 and I'm not overly keen on this lens due to the soft glass thing on the front however having said that I'm sure that this particular lens is in excellent condition. What do think of this lens for a first Leica lens? Regards, Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 3, 2011 Share #6 Posted January 3, 2011 Actually, as you seem to be looking for a vintage combi, I cannot think of any Leica lens from the period that you can go wrong with, provided it is in good shape. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted January 3, 2011 Share #7 Posted January 3, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hello Tony, Welcome to the Forum. It is normal for the frame preview lever to sit away from vertical toward the outside of the camera when there is no lens on your M3. With a 50 or 35 w/ goggles on it will be more or less vertical. W/ any 90 or a 135 Elmarit it will tilt inward & w/ other 35's or other 135's the lever will tilt out. The 35s w/o goggles require separate viewfinders in the shoe as do other wider lenses. You can look thru the viewfinder while moving the lever w/ or w/o a lens on the camera & actuate relevant frames to preview a scene & determine which lens would be most appropriate. The 50mm frame never disappears. W/ an MR or MR-4 meter in the usually cold shoe pushing the lever inward actuates the 90mm frame which approximates the field of view of the meter. The meter shoe is adjustable if this alignment is somewhat askew. The chosen & 50mm frame(s) move as you focus the lens. You should use a body cap to keep dust etc away from interior mechanisms when there is no lens on the camera. If you click the "wiki" icon @ the top of this page as well as the various "Stickys" you will find plenty about M3's & M's in general, lenses, etc. Having said that also feel free ask questions here. There will always be plenty of people willing to help. Remember, most everyone here started w/ someone else's help. Best Regards, Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc_braconi Posted January 4, 2011 Share #8 Posted January 4, 2011 I basically just want to shoot with the one lens and I want to be able to shoot without flash and in low light but I want a sharp image which is why I am looking at the F2 lens, Tony Hi Tony, go straight to the Summicron 2/50, the M3 and Summicron are the combo I got for the first Leica I bought when I was a teenager. This lens gives astonishing picts both with film and slides. I can easily understand that you are anxious to use the camera. BUT !!!!! be patient...wait and seek for a good deal ! survey the Buy & Sell directory also HERE . I think you can get a decent one for less +/- 15 % about the prices you wrote in here. Have a look there http://cgi.ebay.fr/Leica-Summicron-M-50mm-5cm-f-2-Dual-Range-M4-M2-M3-M6-/320637765790?pt=UK_CamerasPhoto_CameraAccessories_CameraLensesFilters_JN&hash=item4aa780089e Welcome to the Forum and good luck. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twotone Posted January 4, 2011 Author Share #9 Posted January 4, 2011 Hello Tony, Welcome to the Forum. It is normal for the frame preview lever to sit away from vertical toward the outside of the camera when there is no lens on your M3. With a 50 or 35 w/ goggles on it will be more or less vertical. W/ any 90 or a 135 Elmarit it will tilt inward & w/ other 35's or other 135's the lever will tilt out. The 35s w/o goggles require separate viewfinders in the shoe as do other wider lenses. You can look thru the viewfinder while moving the lever w/ or w/o a lens on the camera & actuate relevant frames to preview a scene & determine which lens would be most appropriate. The 50mm frame never disappears. W/ an MR or MR-4 meter in the usually cold shoe pushing the lever inward actuates the 90mm frame which approximates the field of view of the meter. The meter shoe is adjustable if this alignment is somewhat askew. The chosen & 50mm frame(s) move as you focus the lens. You should use a body cap to keep dust etc away from interior mechanisms when there is no lens on the camera. If you click the "wiki" icon @ the top of this page as well as the various "Stickys" you will find plenty about M3's & M's in general, lenses, etc. Having said that also feel free ask questions here. There will always be plenty of people willing to help. Remember, most everyone here started w/ someone else's help. Best Regards, Michael Hi Michael, thanks for the great tips and your re-assurance regarding the position of the preview lever. Just as a matter of interest how does the lens 'couple' to the camera, via the bayonet mount or does something inside of the throat of the camera 'attach' to the lens? Kind regards, Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twotone Posted January 4, 2011 Author Share #10 Posted January 4, 2011 Hi Tony, go straight to the Summicron 2/50, the M3 and Summicron are the combo I got for the first Leica I bought when I was a teenager. This lens gives astonishing picts both with film and slides. I can easily understand that you are anxious to use the camera. BUT !!!!! be patient...wait and seek for a good deal ! survey the Buy & Sell directory also HERE . I think you can get a decent one for less +/- 15 % about the prices you wrote in here. Have a look there Leica Summicron M 50mm 5cm f:2 Dual Range M4 M2 M3 M6 en vente sur eBay.fr (fin le 09-janv.-11 17:05:40 Paris) Welcome to the Forum and good luck. Hi jc_braconi, that lens in the link would be perfect for me, thanks for the link:cool: I intend to bid on that one however I'll be very surprised if that goes for any less than 1000 euro or £900 which is way out of my budget but one can hope but, as you say, I'll just have to be patient;) Incidentally I've been looking on e-bay and doing searches but I only end up with mainly American listings despite setting 'worldwide' as my search preference. I've certainly not seen any French listings before now or indeed German ones which I thought would be the best place to buy a Leica lens from. I did have a look in the classifieds in this forum and there were two Summicrons for sale recently but they are both black, one is a series 2 and is well within my budget but it does have some oil on the aperture blades and the other a series 3 and looks in fantastic condition but that one is way out of my budget. I would much prefer to buy from the classifieds here rather than via e-bay as I would prefer to give my money to a fellow forum member. I am also into hi-fi and have bought almost all of my stuff/equipment second hand from a couple of hi-fi forums I'm subbed too. Thanks again to everyone for the excellent advice and kind welcome to the site. Regards, Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcoombs Posted January 4, 2011 Share #11 Posted January 4, 2011 Re lens coupling - It's via the bayonet and based on the depth of the flange. If you look at other focal lengths you can see the difference easily. Regarding lens choices, I wouldn't shy away from the collapsible Summicron, if the front element is clean (ie, scratch free). It is a beautiful match with film (it was my first lens, so maybe I'm biased. The adaptor rings are commonly available and you should be able to get one for more like GBP 30-40, depending on condition. A user copy will work just as well as a collectible copy. Enjoy yourself with a classic camera. Doug Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpattison Posted January 4, 2011 Share #12 Posted January 4, 2011 Hi Tony, and welcome! Where are you in the UK? try this... Used Cameras from 89 specialist Camera Shops in the UK By the way, best to search "Europe" on eBay. There aren't any hidden charges, like import duty + VAT if you buy from the US. (an occasional seller may charge his local VAT extra, but they always state that) Cheers, John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twotone Posted January 4, 2011 Author Share #13 Posted January 4, 2011 Re lens coupling - It's via the bayonet and based on the depth of the flange. If you look at other focal lengths you can see the difference easily. Regarding lens choices, I wouldn't shy away from the collapsible Summicron, if the front element is clean (ie, scratch free). It is a beautiful match with film (it was my first lens, so maybe I'm biased. The adaptor rings are commonly available and you should be able to get one for more like GBP 30-40, depending on condition. A user copy will work just as well as a collectible copy. Enjoy yourself with a classic camera. Doug Thanks Doug, I'm definitely going to buy a classic Summicron preferably a rigid one but I've not ruled out the screwmounted collapsible one either and the dealer I bought the camera from has both types, he also has a 50mm adaptor ring for the screw mounted one too in fact he has a great range of Leica gear and has been in business for nearly fifty years so not a difficult decision to buy from him but I do think his prices are on the high side OTOH the cost thing is starting to become less of an issue because, as I'm sure you know, there is a huge market for these cameras and lenses so effectively you can lay out the money and play with them for a while then sell them on or leave them to your kids do the same. I intend to leave them to my kids as I'm basically just spending their money anyway:D I really love the camera though and can't wait to start using it, think I'll be trying to stick to shooting in B&W as I've never used that type of film before. I'm going to the Western Isles of Scotland in March and am really looking forward to using the camera there. Thanks for the lens coupling explanation BTW. Kind regards, Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twotone Posted January 4, 2011 Author Share #14 Posted January 4, 2011 Hi Tony, and welcome! Where are you in the UK? try this... Used Cameras from 89 specialist Camera Shops in the UK By the way, best to search "Europe" on eBay. There aren't any hidden charges, like import duty + VAT if you buy from the US. (an occasional seller may charge his local VAT extra, but they always state that) Cheers, John Hi John, I'm in sunny Glasgow:D I bought the camera from Ffordes in Inverness and have to say that they were brilliant to deal with. I bought camera on at 1pm on Wednesday afternoon of last week and it was delivered to me at 7am on the Thursday morning and in exactly the condition that was described to me on the phone when I bought it. Thanks for the e-bay advice and the link. Kind regards, Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted January 4, 2011 Share #15 Posted January 4, 2011 You could also consider the late model 2.8 50mm Elmar, it seems to be a very highly rated lens and makes for an excellent compact package. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twotone Posted January 4, 2011 Author Share #16 Posted January 4, 2011 You could also consider the late model 2.8 50mm Elmar, it seems to be a very highly rated lens and makes for an excellent compact package. Thanks James, The dealer is selling one of those for £549 in very good condition however it's a black one. 50mm F2.8 M Black by Leica - Ffordes Photographic Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpattison Posted January 4, 2011 Share #17 Posted January 4, 2011 Tony, That's the new version that was made from 2000 to 2008 ish the original one is usually half that price for a very good example Leica M Mount Lens Guide and for the summicron types... Leica 50mm Summicron Price and Information Guide John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted January 4, 2011 Share #18 Posted January 4, 2011 I meant the later one - Red Dot have a chrome one for sale. The earlier lens is fine too, I have one myself, although the later lens is said to be a better performer, and one shouldn't have any problem finding a perfect example which isn't always the case with older lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twotone Posted January 5, 2011 Author Share #19 Posted January 5, 2011 I meant the later one - Red Dot have a chrome one for sale. The earlier lens is fine too, I have one myself, although the later lens is said to be a better performer, and one shouldn't have any problem finding a perfect example which isn't always the case with older lenses. Thanks James, that looks a nice lens and in very good condition. Regards, Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twotone Posted January 6, 2011 Author Share #20 Posted January 6, 2011 Hi Guys, I've spotted this lens below and was wondering if anyone has dealings with the dealer and your impressions on the lens? I've e-mailed the seller regarding the 'slightly hazy' description just awaiting a reply. Also, does anyone know if there are additional taxes to pay by UK buyers for second hand stuff bought from Austria? Thanks Tony https://www.leicashop.com/vintage/summicron-rigid-250mm-chrome-p-297.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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