glenerrolrd Posted January 5, 2011 Share #21 Posted January 5, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) The rear button on the S2 can be customized a number of different ways. Our preferred setting is for Single AF activation for static subjects...but it can be also set to Continuous Auto Focus to track a subject. The latest firmware update significantly increased the functionality of the rear button. Thanks Josh That could explain part of it as operator error which I expected. I would still bet that the focus circle size is also part of it . Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 Hi glenerrolrd, Take a look here Focusing Issues. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
tom0511 Posted January 5, 2011 Share #22 Posted January 5, 2011 so what do you do if you want to focus on something which is smaller than the AF-Sensor area and want still accurate focus? Is the sensor small enough that you could reliably focus on the eye when shooting a portrait for example? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMacD Posted January 5, 2011 Share #23 Posted January 5, 2011 Tom, Focusing on an eye is not a problem. I decided to try a test to see if I could determine the safe width of a focusing target. Finding a readily available pan cap and keyboard was quicker than finding a model and an eyelash. My test target was about half the width of one side of the crosshairs, or 1/8 of the circle. Three images are included. First a full frame shot of the keyboard and pen cap, with focus circle and crosshairs superimposed. Second image is a close crop when the crosshairs are on target. No problem focusing on the target and ignoring the background. The third image is when the cross hairs are a mere "key" moved to the left of the target pen cap. Again, no problem focusing on the revised target. In this example, the length of one side of the crosshairs is equivalent to about one "key" wide. This test was using a tripod and a two second delay to eliminate any camera movement. Use the cross hairs as the aiming point on any object as wide as half the side of a crosshair or 1/8 of the circle diameter and it should focus OK. Assuming your equipment is OK. For a portrait, you can choose to focus on the eyelashes versus the eye pupil with this system when the equipment is working as designed. I might add that I also did this test with a target much narrower than the pen cap, by using a paper clip edge as an "extreme test", hand held in the fourth photo. This time the focus sensor chose the background rather than something one tenth the width of a "key" So there is a limit when one has a contrasty background. I suspect, but haven't tested to see if the system would focus on a paper clip if against a plain background, but that is not as tough a test. I did not test a lower contrast pen cap either. Hey, I bought an S2 for pleasure and profit and so far no one wants to hang photos of pen caps on their walls. They prefer other images as do I. http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/nature-wildlife/159333-snow-maple-leaves.html#post1568493 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/140719-focusing-issues/?do=findComment&comment=1549527'>More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted January 6, 2011 Share #24 Posted January 6, 2011 Tom, post 10 in this thread for focus on eye in portrait. Most (human ) eyes aren't on stalks like that difficult experiment with the keyboard and protruding target. On Focus locking, I guess I benefited from my ignorance when I tried the camera. I just put the crosshairs on the eye and held the shutter release at second detent while recomposing (just like every P&S with AF that I have tried).. Reading the book later it does have AFs which is what I used and AFc which is the continuous tracking mode so what do you do if you want to focus on something which is smaller than the AF-Sensor area and want still accurate focus?Is the sensor small enough that you could reliably focus on the eye when shooting a portrait for example? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilliamsphotography Posted January 7, 2011 Share #25 Posted January 7, 2011 It is probably important to note that as the pixel density of these sensors gets more packed with smaller pixels, the focusing requirements to achieve critical focus becomes more acute. The resolving power of the S lenses is mind-boggling and promises to more than hold up as higher meg sensors become available for later S cameras. So, I'd be very interested in any further info on the AF that folks discover so I can apply it when the S2P replacement arrives next week. I have the 35, 70 and 180. I did some pretty extensive testing against my H4D/40 ... both on a tripod using an angled target of white markings against a black background so contrast was never an issue ... and experienced erratic results from the S2 AF ... just slight back-focusing that took the edge off the stellar abilities of the S lenses. During the last round of tests like this I was already aware of the speculation it was due to the size of the AF area and took that into account. Same results. On location, shooting at medium to farther distance subjects, The S2 did things similar to Lloyd's report, although no where near as dramatic as his examples. However, his tests were more controlled than mine, and eliminated any variables I may have introduced which could work for or against achieving critical focus ... so I discounted those experiences and just saw them as an alert, and not anything definitive. I've seen razor sharp shots done wide open from the S2 and dramatic evidence to the contrary. As Sherlock said ... "This is a three pipe problem". (To be continued.) -Marc Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom0511 Posted January 7, 2011 Share #26 Posted January 7, 2011 Ok, thank you for the experiment. I have to wait until end of the month until I can testshoot a S2 myself and see how I like the unser interface etc. Marc-does that mean you give one more try to another S2? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilliamsphotography Posted January 7, 2011 Share #27 Posted January 7, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Ok, thank you for the experiment.I have to wait until end of the month until I can testshoot a S2 myself and see how I like the unser interface etc. Marc-does that mean you give one more try to another S2? I'm doing it because they asked me to. No harm in giving it another whirl. However, it won't be on a job : -) -Marc Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted January 8, 2011 Share #28 Posted January 8, 2011 ... No harm in giving it another whirl. However, it won't be on a job : -) -Marc A good idea with any new equipment. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbullock Posted January 8, 2011 Share #29 Posted January 8, 2011 Marc, I can't seem to replicate Lloyd's more surprising results with my S2, but perhaps I'm not trying hard enough. If I focus on something very small with a busy, detailed, large object well behind it, the camera gets confused, or focuses on the background. This would seem to support the large AF sensor theory. I haven't had erratic or back focusing in other situations as Lloyd has though. I'll try again today, but the fact that I have to try is encouraging to me. Also, is your replacement supposed to have anything different about it other than hopefully not locking up? Beta firmware, etc? Travis Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilliamsphotography Posted January 11, 2011 Share #30 Posted January 11, 2011 Marc,I can't seem to replicate Lloyd's more surprising results with my S2, but perhaps I'm not trying hard enough. If I focus on something very small with a busy, detailed, large object well behind it, the camera gets confused, or focuses on the background. This would seem to support the large AF sensor theory. I haven't had erratic or back focusing in other situations as Lloyd has though. I'll try again today, but the fact that I have to try is encouraging to me. Also, is your replacement supposed to have anything different about it other than hopefully not locking up? Beta firmware, etc? Travis I doubt it will have any different firmware Travis. I'm still waiting to hear about the S2P replacement. I sent the other camera to Leica last week with a detailed explanation of the lock-ups ... however, I did also mention the back-focus issue in that same letter. I went back over a bunch of the test shots I previously did to confirm the AF concern. This included a whole series of static objects ... including a series with both the H4D/40 & HC-150N verses the S2P with the 180mm. Boring subjects, but useful in trying to figure this out. While not definitive by any stretch of the imagination, I could repeat it without trying. In fact, I choose the best of a series when comparing. Here are just a few of the test shots ... including one using the H4D/40 alone with True Focus / Absolute Position Lock to center focus on the same subject at the far edge of the frame then re-composing. The side-by-side was done from a distance (see inset) ... the H4D crop on the left and the Leica crop on the right. The stick shot is typical of what I was getting with the S2 (see separate crop) ... and that one could well be attributable to the large focus point grabbing the background. Nothing quite as dramatic as Lloyd's stuff, but enough to pay attention. All were shot wide open with a sufficient shutter speed to lessen camera motion as the culprit. All I can say is ... somethings up, and I haven't a clue what it might be. While not perfect, these lenses are incomparable IMO ... but to get that incomparable performance requires very accurate AF, otherwise what's the point of the unique form-factor? ... lots of more plodding options out there for a boat-load less money. -Marc Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/140719-focusing-issues/?do=findComment&comment=1555392'>More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted January 11, 2011 Share #31 Posted January 11, 2011 (edited) Looks to me like the S2's AF is getting confused by a background that has more contrast than the intended target. For the photo of the statue did you try using AF on the wall below the statue and re-composing? I'm still a big fan of manual focus, BTW. Edited January 11, 2011 by wildlightphoto Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilliamsphotography Posted January 11, 2011 Share #32 Posted January 11, 2011 Looks to me like the S2's AF is getting confused by a background that has more contrast than the intended target. For the photo of the statue did you try using AF on the wall below the statue and re-composing? I'm still a big fan of manual focus, BTW. No Doug, not with that specific shot. At the time I wasn't fully aware of the large AF sensor theory ... Lloyd never speculated on that being the cause in his review. I was just shooting random subjects checking his findings. I would have thought that the white statue centered against a dark backdrop would provide plenty of contrast to grab ... maybe it grabbed the wrong part ... LOL I'm wondering if something is ever so slightly amiss with the data transfer from camera to lens? In that case I would think it could easily be remedied with a firmware update. However, that others don't seem to be experiencing this is a bit troubling. BTW, I've used two S2Ps and both did the same thing. Go figure ???????? Like most folks ... I always suspect user error first ... which is why I shot the H4D along with it on one of the tests. -Marc Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted January 11, 2011 Share #33 Posted January 11, 2011 I wonder if the H4D's AF priority is nearest object within the AF field, while the S2's is highest contrast object. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constable Posted January 11, 2011 Share #34 Posted January 11, 2011 Doug That is an interesting thought Ed Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilliamsphotography Posted January 12, 2011 Share #35 Posted January 12, 2011 Yeah Doug, ... it would be of value if we knew what the priority was (if any) ... then you could hopefully adjust AF placement technique for it. I went back and looked at S2 test shots from a year+ ago, but it was in Florida and most shots were f/5.6 or so. There were a couple images shot wide open with the 180 in the bright sun ... but the background was pretty far away ... those shots were just fine. When I get the new S2P I'll run a few controlled tests again. If that camera is okay, I wouldn't know what to say about all this. I wonder if Lloyd Chambers is going to do any follow up? -Marc Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom0511 Posted January 12, 2011 Share #36 Posted January 12, 2011 Interesting and worrying. The thought of 20k for a camera worrys me. But the thought of a 20k camera which doesnt focus accurate even more. I will have one available for testing soon and I know I will extensivly check out focus accurancy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom0511 Posted January 12, 2011 Share #37 Posted January 12, 2011 A thought: Lets say the AF-sensor area is quite big - so how do you focus on an eye of a face when you are not so close and the AF-sensor covers the whole face? Would in this case the behaviour of the S2 help to focus on the eye??? Many images we see posted are portrait/fasjion/glamour stuff. Is the AF maybe tweaked a little in this direction to compensate for a relativly large AF sensor? Just a thought. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilliamsphotography Posted January 13, 2011 Share #38 Posted January 13, 2011 Brand new S2P was delivered today. New battery is charging in a new charger. Got a brand new San Disk 16 gig Extreme Pro to use in it. Stay tuned. -Marc Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbullock Posted January 13, 2011 Share #39 Posted January 13, 2011 Looking forward to hearing how it goes Marc. I did more testing today and it seems like 30% of the time mine actually front-focuses at medium to long distances. I need to get more samples to make any conclusions, so it's back to taking brick wall pictures tomorrow. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
c6gowin Posted January 13, 2011 Share #40 Posted January 13, 2011 Brand new S2P was delivered today. New battery is charging in a new charger. Got a brand new San Disk 16 gig Extreme Pro to use in it. Stay tuned. -Marc I hope you have better luck this time around. I am anxious to hear how the new body performs for you. While you are testing the auto focus you may want to try both methods of activating the AF as well as AFs and AFc. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.