rob_x2004 Posted January 16, 2007 Author Share #21 Posted January 16, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Right lets not have any bones over this. This is the contact info about this..."company" It is what I was sent by Ebay. Another user has confirmed the same address, a post office, not a business address. I have phoned that HK number, it took ten days of calling. The person answering denied any knowledge or GIFTSIX or camera supplies and spoke reasonable English. He suggested someone had given me the wrong number. If you are considering dealing with this person dont, or make sure you manage some way of retrieving your money if he fails to deliver. User ID: giftsix Name: Rochelle Ngai Company: Gift Six City: Tsuen Wan Post Office State: n/a Country: Hong Kong Phone: 85292795967 Hong Kong telecome had no company in their phone book for M2688 Giftsix Photo Supplies. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 16, 2007 Posted January 16, 2007 Hi rob_x2004, Take a look here Ebay provide no address & non phn number GIFTSIX fraud.. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
robsteve Posted January 16, 2007 Share #22 Posted January 16, 2007 Rob - why the excessively tender-footed approach? Post the details here and let everyone know who these people are. Australian-Rob has had enough heartache over this deal that "Giftsix" deserve to be named & shamed, even if they eventually turn out to be legitimate (in the circumstances highly unlikely). Andrew: I didn't want to post the contact info on a public forum because it is contrary to the Ebay rules. When you use the request contact info function of Ebay, it is very specific that it is only to be used in regards to a transaction with the user. Rob: Did you try emailing them through the email giftsix uses for Paypal? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_x2004 Posted January 16, 2007 Author Share #23 Posted January 16, 2007 Yes I have tried that several times to the @yahoo.com Thanks for the confirmation Rob. Appreciated. I do have that info from another source. Read Ebays terms, but since this supposedly isnt his phone number and there is no given address for the seller or his business I am not sure what to make of Ebays caveat. No one out here, understandably is interested in small scale fraud, if it is the case. I have contacted Aust Fed Police, Austrade, Foreign Affairs and Trade, my bank his bank, Ebay...Waiting on Squaretrade. Maybe I should just wait patiently till out of the goodness of his heart GIFTSIX sends me something. At this stage all I can do is let people know in the case they chose to join the queue. I think you have to appreciate there are no safey nets with Ebay and TTing funds. None at all if the chips are really down. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_x2004 Posted January 16, 2007 Author Share #24 Posted January 16, 2007 I did ask Poon and I am informed that GIFTSIX is a private seller hiding somewhere in HK and apparently he is known to be less than reliable. I am informed that GIFTSIX advertised prices as of late are unrealistic given Leicas price increases ....... Ivar I hadnt seen that reply before. You will see in the other thread my reasons for Ebay was supply problem in Aust. Fallout from the M8 coding stuff no doubt. At the time I was being quoted A$4400 to A$4750 Sep, Oct?. Giftsix price was ball park A$3960 plus an import cost at customs plus GST we incur here, which would have wound up round A$4300 or somethig. So there were no alarm bells there. Of course the lens in the Jan Feb? shipment in Aust is now up round A$5500 I think. Not even sure if it is available here yet. My reason for Ebay, was one of availability. You know, this guy has three in stock, powerseller. Or, wait another five six weeks for Australian dealers after already waiting six and being told I would have it by christmas? Anyway. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KM-25 Posted January 16, 2007 Share #25 Posted January 16, 2007 I agree, Poon at Hong Kong Supplies is extremely reliable and I wouldn't hesitate to buy from them again. Got a great brand new 50 1.4 Asph from him a few months ago, I had the lens in 4 days. Agree, ask him what is up with Giftsix? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_x2004 Posted January 16, 2007 Author Share #26 Posted January 16, 2007 .......On an earlier thread I advised rob_x2004 to use Square Trade and I suggest that he now contacts compliance@squaretrade.comto intervene on his behalf. Thanks for the advice Pekem. It seems though that Squaretrade is pretty toothless. If the guy is scamming he knows the nooks and crannies. The following is an excerpt from a mail recieved from Squaretrade. Frankly I think it just another US$30 down the drain, or have I missed something is compliance at Sqtrade something else? Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/13507-ebay-provide-no-address-non-phn-number-giftsix-fraud/?do=findComment&comment=143388'>More sharing options...
Ivar B Posted January 16, 2007 Share #27 Posted January 16, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) I noticed that GIFTSIX at present offer loads of expensive equipment for sale on eBay, and it is also mentioned that about 85 % of what they offer is in stock. One cannot quite rule out I guess that this is a possible source of the problem, and maybe they have found out that they have sold the lens below cost. Since this seller is still so active, one should think that he would be interested in keeping a good relationship with eBay/Square Trade, and that a solution may be found. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted January 16, 2007 Share #28 Posted January 16, 2007 I would be inclined to pass this out to a local debt collector. OK they will also charge for their services but many work on a no collection no fee basis. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
omshanti5@hotmail.com Posted January 16, 2007 Share #29 Posted January 16, 2007 For Rob: This may or may not help you, but it may be a resource: I do not know if the numbers are accurate, but you can try! The following was on the net. "Margaret Wittman, CEO, eBay Inc 2145 Hamilton Avenue, San Jose, CA 95125 Phone: 408-376-7400 Fax: 408-376-7401 Here is a phone number for ebay at their corporate office. eBay Inc 2145 Hamilton Ave. San Jose, CA 95125 Phone: 408-376-7400 Fax: 408-376-7401 I wish you luck.. IF THEY ASK HOW YOU GOT THE NUMBER, REMIND THEM THEY ARE A PUBLICALLY OWNED COMPANY....You can also write the new president billcobb@ebay.com The do reply. More ebay contact numbers. Posted by: josh6780 2005-08-20 07:34:12 In reply to: lc59 Brian Burk - head of trust and safety..(This is the new guy. He likes to shoot first and ask questions later.) phone - 408-967-6451 Steve Oglethorpe soglethorpe@ebay.com Fax # 408-967-9922 Michael Dearing phone - 408-376-5195 md@ebay.com Hope it helps! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick0137 Posted January 16, 2007 Share #30 Posted January 16, 2007 Of course, there is the alternative option. Namely to "bomb" all his present eBay auctions. If they are proper auctions bid them up into the millions and if they are buy it now then buy them all. Then just don't complete the transaction. He'll have to contact you then. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted January 16, 2007 Share #31 Posted January 16, 2007 Of course, there is the alternative option. Namely to "bomb" all his present eBay auctions. If they are proper auctions bid them up into the millions and if they are buy it now then buy them all. Then just don't complete the transaction. He'll have to contact you then. What a naughty suggestion I did already suggest this, only half seriously but then sometimes one has to resort to drastic measures. I have done this on the odd occassion I've spotted an obviously fraudulent item on e bay, to save someone from losing out big time whilst the e bay people investigate. Of course I win the item then request to collect it and never hear anything back. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_x2004 Posted January 17, 2007 Author Share #32 Posted January 17, 2007 Ivar, there have been two price hikes on buy it now prices over HK ebay sites. It was not cheap compared with the non coded, nor the first lot of coded lenses to hit the HK ebay sellers in what...july, august I think it was? HK supplies had a much cheaper 35Lux uncoded still listed at the time I bought from GIFTSIX. There was a five or six hundred dollar saving on what I would have payed in Aus. Remember this guy probably doesnt have store on a high street to pay for, nor staff. If I ever get the lens compared to imported with Leicas Feb price shed then yes it will be a saving. Josef....that is information I appreciate. With the time I have been spending on this I have been getting that angry and frustrated I havent been thinking laterally. Call me dim. I shall now put it to good use. Nick, James, yes I had given this sort of thing some thought. Also selling items next to theirs might get under their skin, especially when linked to a web site showing the fraud. Given no one actually reviews complaints and the difficulty of lodging them correctly, if I misbehave I am sure the Ebay automatic processes wouldnt distingush and interpret my numerous infringements and I would be quickly banned. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_x2004 Posted January 17, 2007 Author Share #33 Posted January 17, 2007 The other thing, and this is the frightening bit, is this guy really knows all the ebay angles. In certain instances, Ebay require his action or presumably something is auto triggerd in Ebay that escalates their interest in his account. For example once one lodges dispute, he has five days to respond I think it is. Whatever it is, within this time he sends you a perfectly reasonable sounding and apologetic 'standard letter' which always leaves you in the position that you need to provide him with something before he can continue. Whether that be to pay additional fees, or provide an address because he cant quite work out what he has on file, or he requires a telephone number for customs. Regardless whether you have already actioned his request, or previously provided the info, and confirmed it separately, that letter always states his records indicate he has sent a mail to you that you have not actioned. He has done this to me twice, once early Jan, and again today, presumably after he recieved Squaretrades correspondence. Todays for example, even ignoring my correspondence has been continuous and his non existent from mid Dec 2006. This guy is ruthlessly dishonest, and he knows Ebay inside out. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/13507-ebay-provide-no-address-non-phn-number-giftsix-fraud/?do=findComment&comment=143941'>More sharing options...
spylaw4 Posted January 17, 2007 Share #34 Posted January 17, 2007 I've been following this thread and completely sympathise with you Rob. From my own experience with a "fraudulent" US seller (albeit on a smaller but not insignificant scale) I know that eBay and their payment engine Paypal are frankly useless at dispute resolution. eBay should devote a lot more time and energy to weeding out the bad eggs, and that would only enhance user confidence. Generally the vast majority of deals are completely ok, but with the millions of transactions taking place daily there is every scope for fraud particularly on high value items. Scammers do know all the tricks but with experience one can spot potentially dodgy items and ask a few pertinent questions before bidding, however in this case it seems that the waters are a bit muddy due to some succesful deals. I thought at first that someone had hacked their account and this still could be a possiblity. If it was me I would now assume that the probability is some form of scam/fraud. But I would also continue the email correspondence, correcting their erroneous statements with copies of previous emails received and sent etc. Boring I know, but it builds a picture as backup for any action. Given the value of the transaction it might indeed be worth getting some form of HK debt collection agency involved? Could any HK forum member assist Rob in this? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
budrichard Posted January 18, 2007 Share #35 Posted January 18, 2007 I sympathise with your problem. I know the following is not going to help you but it may help other purchasers. First, for high $$ items, I do not purchase off shore, period. For high $$ items in the USA, I request as a condition of the sale before the sale, the telephone number and address of the seller from the seller and call the seller personally. I now ONLY use PayPal backed up by AMEXO. I have purchased a NIB M6 0.85, Mint M7 0.85, 35mm 1.4 ASPH NIB, 90mm 2.0 Asph NIB and 75mm AA Mint in box, all through eBay, all with excellent results and no problems. I am VERY CAREFUL and that may be the reason that I haven't had your problem before now. Cash, check, wire transfer are all danger signals that the seller is not legit. Some day eBay will shut down due to fraud. For now, eBay is overlooking the problems but at some point the revenue will decrease and they will attempt to understand the reason or reasons. There is so much fraud, inaccuraccy, and general larceny going on that I am just about at the point of not using eBay anymore.-Dick Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pekem Posted January 18, 2007 Share #36 Posted January 18, 2007 Josef....that is information I appreciate. With the time I have been spending on this I have been getting that angry and frustrated I havent been thinking laterally. Call me dim. I shall now put it to good use. Nick, James, yes I had given this sort of thing some thought. Also selling items next to theirs might get under their skin, especially when linked to a web site showing the fraud. Given no one actually reviews complaints and the difficulty of lodging them correctly, if I misbehave I am sure the Ebay automatic processes wouldnt distingush and interpret my numerous infringements and I would be quickly banned. Rob, I think that you should give more consideration to the remedy outlined above. You could simply create a new eBay ID and bid on a few expensive items, via buy it now if possible, and then sit back. eBay may become involved in the end to the extent that they might de-register your new ID but it would leave your established ID uncompromised. As it happens this teqhnique was applied by the eBay member that registered the ID scambuster and I don't if he/she is still active but the ID has been around for about three years, More important it would draw giftsix out and eBay might in the end recognise that a big problem is developing. For your information giftsix wrote to me on the 10th Jan saying they had stock of certain items , copy of letter below. If you do need amnunition to support your claim to eBay that the bona fides of giftsix is questionable then by all means use the mail to corroborate the claim. Text of letter from giftsix: Thanks for your interest in our listing. Yes, as of Jan 10 HKT we have 3 units of the Leica 90 f/2 APO Summicron M ASPH 6-bit lens in stock and they're ready to ship. Our Leica cameras and lenses are imported from the authorized supplier in Germany. They are originally packaged for international use and all of them come with genuine Leica international warranty which works in the UK as well as other countries. When maintenance is needed, simply send the lens to the Leica authorized service center in the UK and they will take care of it. For your information, each Leica lens comes 2-year international warranty while each Leica camera comes with 3-year international warranty which can be exteneded to 5 years. Feel free to contact us if you have any questions. We're happy to help. Best regards, M2688 eBay ID: giftsix Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted January 18, 2007 Share #37 Posted January 18, 2007 Another idea, 'buy' one or two high value items then e mail to say something like you are in Hong Kong in a couple of days time on business and you wish to collect/pay cash. Maybe you'll get their real contact details that way and can then commence action against them. Alternatively as I've already suggested pass it out to a commercial debt collector. They may be able to trace them and recover your money. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
devils-advocate Posted January 21, 2007 Share #38 Posted January 21, 2007 Rob, Have you contacted the Hong Kong Police? They are a very reputable and professional force, with a strong cultural carry-over from their days as the Royal Hong Kong Police. You should be able to find someone who speaks english in the Fraud Sqaud. Criminal penalties in the HKSAR are not triffling, so this might be a real option. Best of luck, and my sympathies. - N. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gduveen Posted January 22, 2007 Share #39 Posted January 22, 2007 I'm not sure why Rob's thread about receiving his lens has been closed -so I'll come back to this thread. I'm delighted for Rob, and wish him well with his lens. But the problems with Giftsix have not finished. I am still waiting for a Noctilux ordered in December, and still having great difficulty getting any kind of communication from them. But Rob's happy ending gives me hope... Gerard Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted January 23, 2007 Share #40 Posted January 23, 2007 I think it was closed because it was becoming a personal argument between the OP an d A N Other. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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