M8 OR film m plus x1

[msbel]

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Oops, on the M8, due to crop size, a used 28mm 2.8 Elmarit in place of the 35 Summicron to get the actual 35mm field of view would be a nice start with a 50.

[jsrockit]

Buy the cheapest M8 you can find, buy a cheap CV lens, buy a Leica M2, and a used Panasonic LX3 ... all bases covered.

[RichardM8]

bcwricht03,

 

After a long period of doubt, thinking, reading and trying out a loaner M8 from my dealer for a whole week, I just bought a s/h M8.2 with a new Elmarit-M 28 to replace my X1. I had the X1 for a little more than 6 months and some 2000 shots.

 

The X1 is a brilliant camera. The IQ is nothing short of stunning, especially at high(er) ISOs. From ISO 1000 on, it really beats any M imo. But at the end of the day it still is a P&S type camera with AF only and LCD framing. I've tried a slide-on viewfinder thingie but that simply doesn't work for me.

 

At lower ISO's the M8 (and M9 obviously) are in a league of their own. The images have a certain look about them that is breathtaking. Hard to put into words but immediately obvious when you look at them. Palpable, 3D-like, incredibly sharp and detailed. Stunning.

 

But much more important than the technicalities is the feel, handling and way of shooting with M which is unique, highly addictive and inspiring. While bigger than the X1, the M is still compact and has a solid and reassuring 'metal brick' feel about it. The extra weight turns out to be an advantage as it feels much better in your hands. After the M8 there was simply no going back to the X1 anymore. Regardless how high I think of it and how excellent its images are. Suddenly it felt too much like a P&S, too light, too hollow with awkward framing and slowish operation.

 

So after my own experience I'd say find a good M8 and buy a nice LX3/5 if you need a P&S too.

 

Richard.

[MikeD700]

"Suddenly it felt too much like a P&S, too light, too hollow with awkward framing and slowish operation."

 

That's a very frank and, for people who insist on using more than one camera (for whatever reason), also very useful observation.

 

An important part of the pleasure of taking pictures is the "feel" of the camera you're doing that with (there's no absolute relationship with the quality of the ensuing pics). The M series are unsurpassed in that respect (the film ones even more than the digital ones, due to the "denser", even more mechanical feel).

 

Buy an M8 or 8.2; one (28) or two (28, 50) lenses, and you're all set!

[WestMichigan]

As much as I love to write and share thoughts, the best response I can have to Mike's post is to say:

"ahhh... yeah... Ditto to what he said."

R in Mi.

 

"Suddenly it felt too much like a P&S, too light, too hollow with awkward framing and slowish operation."

 

That's a very frank and, for people who insist on using more than one camera (for whatever reason), also very useful observation.

 

An important part of the pleasure of taking pictures is the "feel" of the camera you're doing that with (there's no absolute relationship with the quality of the ensuing pics). The M series are unsurpassed in that respect (the film ones even more than the digital ones, due to the "denser", even more mechanical feel).

 

Buy an M8 or 8.2; one (28) or two (28, 50) lenses, and you're all set!

[farnz]

M8 and D-Lux 5 ... ?

 

Pete.

[tobey bilek]

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IMHO is is just an overpriced P&S. Plus I do not want a fixed lens let alone a slightly wide one..

 

If I needed a P&S, I would get a $300 one because in the end theyare all just a throw away.

[jsrockit]

IMHO is is just an overpriced P&S. Plus I do not want a fixed lens let alone a slightly wide one..

 

If I needed a P&S, I would get a $300 one because in the end theyare all just a throw away.

 

Wow, the X1 is now just a throw away camera?

[RichardM8]

Stupid remarks don't require any response jsrockit...

[dchalfon]

i was more or less with the same kind of doubt a year ago. i've got an m8 and now i already own 3 lenses (28, 50 and 90), couldn't be more happier.

think about what you get with a rangefinder and what not.

basically i miss a good compact to always have with me (the m8 is still bulky for daily use). i also miss a good camera for macro photography.

 

the x1 is not so smaller than the m8, so it is still not compact enough.

 

but start shooting with a rangefinder and latter you understand what you will miss. or not...

 

and then decide for a second camera.

[Guest tvleeskr]

I want a rangefinder because I like manual controls.....

 

 

Why not consider a kanon 550D? Fully manual (focus, settings, everything), live view also via your MacBook? Perfect for everything when using a tripod

A rangefinder is not about manual control but about being in control. And that is an emotional bond. Perfect for anything when not using a tripod.

The earlier suggested IIIf is excellent for film, a no brainer but do have it CLA'd first.

And for social stuff: get a nice Panny and give it to your wife, or whoever carries your gear.

Have fun!

[Knomad]

A rangefinder is a different way of seeing, and different workflow. Getting accustomed to it takes more than a day or two, so I'm not sure just playing around with one in a store does much good, although it's a good first step.

 

One good way to look at it is to evaluate what you'd like to shoot. Rangefinders are very good at some things. Street photography of course, candids of most kinds, travel where the compact size is an amazing advantage. I use mine for environmental portraits and fashion and art and landscapes. But for closeups or sustained fast action like sports, I grab a different camera.

 

Beyond that... I use both an M8 and an M6, and most of the time rely more on the M8 (although I get in a film mood sometimes and carry the M6 for up to a few weeks at a time). The image quality is exceptional either way, I have printed 17x22 exhibit prints for major galleries from both cameras and know of people who have gone a lot bigger than that. For that matter, just yesterday I saw the Cartier-Bresson exhibit, and looked at beautiful prints from 11x14 to maybe 20x24 that would have been shot with an old screw mount Leica and uncoated lenses.

 

The differences are in look and workflow. It's possible to do grainy, high-acutance images with the M6 that are different than what any digital camera can do, although the M8 is more film-like than many. Still, hold images shot with the same lens on the two cameras side by side, and they don't look the same. I'm not sure I'd call one better or worse, they're just different. And of course there's Photoshop vs. darkroom chemicals and all that. I'm OK working either way, some people strongly prefer one way or the other. Then there's the choice of hauling around a spare battery and charger and a pouch full of SD cards, and having to recharge batteries basically every night when shooting a lot, vs. carrying (and sometimes, in smaller places, trying to find) film, and dealing with airport X-ray machines, and all that. Inconveniences either way, but different inconveniences.

 

One thing I'm sure of, I would not buy an X1 in addition to my M8. Not enough size difference to matter, it does less, and it costs about as much as a used M8. All things considered the M8 is plenty compact to carry a lot. What I do instead is pack an old $200 Panasonic digital point and shoot when I carry the M6. That gives me something cheap and light for the casual snapshot or to take a close up of the model's ID when doing releases, without any meaningful extra bulk or weight or cost. If you must have the Leica name, a D-Lux is in that same size range.

[h00ligan]

T2i Aka 550 is a great camera for the buck. It's not small enough or large enough for me. Also if I want a dslr I want more speed....which is why I bought a 7d.

 

The x1 is a different beast. Fits in a jacket pocket and for most owners (mine had issues) the quality is up there with a semi pro dslr and really good glass. I hope my x1 comes back perfect and shows me that. Others clearly have seen it. As have I from their shots.

[santdtman]

bcwricht03,

 

After a long period of doubt, thinking, reading and trying out a loaner M8 from my dealer for a whole week, I just bought a s/h M8.2 with a new Elmarit-M 28 to replace my X1. I had the X1 for a little more than 6 months and some 2000 shots.

 

The X1 is a brilliant camera. The IQ is nothing short of stunning, especially at high(er) ISOs. From ISO 1000 on, it really beats any M imo. But at the end of the day it still is a P&S type camera with AF only and LCD framing. I've tried a slide-on viewfinder thingie but that simply doesn't work for me.

 

At lower ISO's the M8 (and M9 obviously) are in a league of their own. The images have a certain look about them that is breathtaking. Hard to put into words but immediately obvious when you look at them. Palpable, 3D-like, incredibly sharp and detailed. Stunning.

 

But much more important than the technicalities is the feel, handling and way of shooting with M which is unique, highly addictive and inspiring. While bigger than the X1, the M is still compact and has a solid and reassuring 'metal brick' feel about it. The extra weight turns out to be an advantage as it feels much better in your hands. After the M8 there was simply no going back to the X1 anymore. Regardless how high I think of it and how excellent its images are. Suddenly it felt too much like a P&S, too light, too hollow with awkward framing and slowish operation.

 

So after my own experience I'd say find a good M8 and buy a nice LX3/5 if you need a P&S too.

 

Richard.

 

Hi Richard, reading here for a while. I am on a similar journey like you, receiving my M8 and Elmarit today.

 

While i agree in the quality of the camera and the lens, i have it difficult enjoying the pictures. I must admit that i tried the camera only now, in the evening, when its dark everywhere, so i will go out tomorrow doing my first real "testdrive".

I find it REALLY difficult, enjoying the Rangefinder way of focusing, after using autofocus for 10 years now. It seems, that my hands are in the way all of the time, and making pictures "out of the hip" is impossible, making pictures of children in action, nearly impossible,

 

Will give some feedback tomorrow evening, after my first real shoots...

[RichardM8]

It does take practice and 'getting used to'. Give it some time and effort. I think you won't be disappointed.

 

Low light/high ISO are not where Ms excel but this is widely known. Up to 640 the results can be stunning.

[andybarton]

 

Low light/high ISO are not where Ms excel .

 

 

That's not true. Ms are excellent in low light. You can often focus an M when another camera would struggle. An M with a fast lens and fast film will get shots that other cameras would miss.

 

High ISO isn't great on an M8, but has been greatly improved on an M9 with LR3

[RichardM8]

I meant the low light/high ISO combination Andy, not just low light.

 

I don't agree on 'greatly improved' for the M9. As the - very few - thorough in depth M9 reviews show and proof, the noise characteristics of both sensors are identical. No surprise as the sensor are identical apart from the pixel count and microlenses toward the edges of the M9 to battle extra vignetting.

 

On the M9 in-camera noise reduction is applied from ISO 640 onwards where the M8 does not. Fortunately, noise filtering from current generation software like LR3 offer superior noise filtering than the, relatively, simple® in-camera algorithms.

[santdtman]

It does take practice and 'getting used to'. Give it some time and effort. I think you won't be disappointed.

 

Low light/high ISO are not where Ms excel but this is widely known. Up to 640 the results can be stunning.

 

I tried the camera today. First at an public day in my sons school. Very different light situations (from dark to bright from halogen to sun). I was not very happy with the results under difficult light. Later in the mountains.

 

The JPeg converter is bad,... Sorry, but the JPegs out of my X1, and even the Dlux4 are worlds better. ISO - well - in my opinion the X! handles high ISOs better. However - DNG´s are nice, converting them with Lightroom is a pleasure, but Aperture3 will not display all EXIF data (like aperture), which is a pain in the backside .

 

Its quite challenging to use big apertures at small distances (like when making portraits) - getting the cam focused and making a nice compsition is really hard work (was of course a lot easier with the X1 or any other autofocus cam)...

 

build quality is superb, using the camera a joy.

 

Some questions to the profs...:

- is the M8 weather sealed? Will it be able to handle degrees down to -20°C, snow or rain?

- does the IR filter have a negative side effect on the IQ of the cam?

[Guest tvleeskr]

I tried the camera today. First at an public day in my sons school. Very different light situations (from dark to bright from halogen to sun). I was not very happy with the results under difficult light. Later in the mountains.

 

The JPeg converter is bad,... Sorry, but the JPegs out of my X1, and even the Dlux4 are worlds better. ISO - well - in my opinion the X! handles high ISOs better. However - DNG´s are nice, converting them with Lightroom is a pleasure, but Aperture3 will not display all EXIF data (like aperture), which is a pain in the backside .

 

Its quite challenging to use big apertures at small distances (like when making portraits) - getting the cam focused and making a nice compsition is really hard work (was of course a lot easier with the X1 or any other autofocus cam)...

 

build quality is superb, using the camera a joy.

 

Some questions to the profs...:

- is the M8 weather sealed? Will it be able to handle degrees down to -20°C, snow or rain?

- does the IR filter have a negative side effect on the IQ of the cam?

 

Sandtman, you are an autofocus man with a high iso and weather seals.. The M8/M9 is definitely not the right camera for you because it requires an artistic, emotional bond. Try Nikon | Home or Canon Global.

au revoir.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[santdtman]

Sandtman, you are an autofocus man with a high iso and weather seals.. The M8/M9 is definitely not the right camera for you because it requires an artistic, emotional bond. Try Nikon | Home or Canon Global.

au revoir.

 

I am coming from that side of the river, but thanks for the advice... Was just posting my first impressions and thoughts in a harmless way...