50mm summilux focus help

[skinner]

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Hi, Im a real beginner in the world of rangefinders and Leica but I'm lucky enough to now own a M9 with a 35mm f2 asph and a 50mm f1.4 asph. I'm loving it but I think I have a problem with the 50mm, it is new but after reading some reviews and this forum I think I have a calibration issue? Am I doing anything wrong or does it look like I have to send it off for fixing? The snaps on this quick site show some results first with the 35mm which seem ok with my limited manual focusing experience but then using the same technique the 50mm is way off? Lens detection is set to auto. The glasses in these test pics are about 0.5m apart.

 

http://web.me.com/skinner73

 

Any advice is appreciated if i'm doing something wrong or even just confirmation that it needs to go to the Leica doctor! Just can't believe kit that costs this much might have to be sent back? Still loving everything about it though, don't worry!

Thanks

Steve

[RoySmith]

Hi, Im a real beginner in the world of rangefinders and Leica but I'm lucky enough to now own a M9 with a 35mm f2 asph and a 50mm f1.4 asph. I'm loving it but I think I have a problem with the 50mm, it is new but after reading some reviews and this forum I think I have a calibration issue? Am I doing anything wrong or does it look like I have to send it off for fixing? The snaps on this quick site show some results first with the 35mm which seem ok with my limited manual focusing experience but then using the same technique the 50mm is way off? Lens detection is set to auto. The glasses in these test pics are about 0.5m apart.

 

http://web.me.com/skinner73

 

Any advice is appreciated if i'm doing something wrong or even just confirmation that it needs to go to the Leica doctor! Just can't believe kit that costs this much might have to be sent back? Still loving everything about it though, don't worry!

Thanks

Steve

 

I am a novice rangefinder as well, but it certainly looks like the calibration on the summilux is off. From my reading of this forum one gets the best calibration if the camera and lens are calibrated together - although then your 35mm could be off. So your choice is to either send in the 50mm alone, or send in the M9 and both lenses for calibration. I'm sure some of the more experienced users will give more insight.

Ciao,

Roy

[jaapv]

First make sure you have your focussing technique and viewfinder adjustment (diopter!) right. Make sure you are looking through the viewfinder in the optical axis. It is a common mistake to look skewed when the camera is on a tripod, which may produce just the effect you are showing.

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/130720-m9-faq-sticky-thread.html

 

Don't forget that focussing is more critical on a 50 mm lens than on a 35 mm lens.

 

Then, if the problem persists, send the lens in to Leica. Focussing calibration problems are not unknown, but easily corrected, fortunately.

[dpattinson]

Given that the 35mm f2 looks to be pretty spot on, and the 50 1.4 is way off - I'd say it's unlikely to be your focusing technique that's at fault. Even if you somehow mixed up the order of the images, the 'close' one for the 50 1.4 is definitely front focused. Just to be sure, you are not recomposing the image after focusing, and the 50mm lens is 'clicking in' when it's mounted?

 

Still, with only two lenses to test - there is a slim chance that in fact the 50 is good, but the camera and the 35 are both out.

 

You could verify this by testing a third lens in a dealer. If the third lens looks OK then it's most likely the 50mm lens that is out of spec and needs to be repaired.

 

I don't think you should need to send the camera in with the lens. The lenses are definitely adjusted to a standard, and not to the particular camera body.

[skinner]

Thanks all so far for your time and replies. Reading the ' how to focus' thread I think I'm ok there and can cross off the pre-requisites for a focused shot. I do also have an old 90mm tele elmarit that I have just tried but here I think my technique fine tuning to the viewfinder needs more practice as it's clearly a bit trickier. With the 90mm I got 1 shot with good focus out of about 10, the others were slightly blurry when zoomed in on the focus point so either this old lens is slightly out as well or, more than likely, I just need more practice ( I have a 1.25x magnifier on the way which might help a bit).

 

The 50mm was clicked in, I did double check as i wouldn't be surprised knowing me but it was ok and just to confirm I didn't recompose after focusing (my predictive spelling just changed recompose to decompose so I'm glad I noticed that!)

 

Never 'tested' a lens before in my life to see if it works as it should but I suppose it's just all part of the special bond I'm beginning to realise between man and dream machine? Or is that just to forgiving?

Thanks again

Steve

[DFV]

Hi Steve,

 

Don't worry about the focusing, you will get it. The only requisites are being patient and practicing a lot. Once you get it you will not only have outstanding results but a better success ratio that most autofocus DSLRs.

 

To cheek your focussing and proper calibration there is a simple method to see if there is something wrong right away. Here is what I do;

 

1- Find a grainy or rugged surface. A contrasty carpet or tarmac work fine.

2- Make sure you have a lot of light to shoot at at least 250th of a second.

3- take a small pebble or marker and set it about 2 meters in front of you on the surface.

4- Open your Summilux all the way to f1,4 to have the narrowest depth of field

5- Set the camera at a relatively low angle to the surface, focus on the pebble and shoot.

 

If you do this you should be able to see the depth of field and more important where the focusing is set. Use a tripod if possible since at this distance and rather shallow depth of field just a little handshake could through you of a couple of centimeters.

 

To test the focusing at longer distances just find a street with many aligned markers such as parking meeter or trees...

[DFV]

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Just in case here is a quick example I did right now... This is at a distance of about 1 meter. The picture was taken handheld and not 100% perpendicular to the subject but it is only to demonstrate. As you can see, the depth of field is clearly visible and the line crosses the marker right in the middle.

 

If your lenses are ok than I suggest you shoot, eat and sleep with your M9 for about two weeks. Shoot anything in all situations, do not be greedy, and review your results. This is the only way to get the hang and feel of the focusing (apart from a few tips and tricks).

 

Hope this helps.

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[skinner]

Thanks for the example shot to guide me. Here are two more taken this morning along the lines you suggest (felt like MacGiver trying to find props around the house!)

 

The first one is with the 35mm @f2 focusing on the black pouch in the middle which seems ok to me? the second one is with the 50mm using the same technique again focusing on the black pouch in the middle, it seems like it wants to focus about 0.5m in front of the subject unless I am doing something wrong?

 

The images are cropped so I don't display my messy room to the world!

 

Thanks again

Steve

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[wattsy]

The 50mm looks to be so far out that I wouldn't hesitate in getting it back to Leica. That said, in my experience the 35/F2 is relatively forgiving of minor miscalibration problems so I'd be wary about assuming the M9 body is bang on. It wouldn't surprise me if the body is also front focussing a bit. Unless you can verify the focus of the body by using another (known to be good) 50mm lens, I would have Leica look at both the body and lens to avoid the problem of getting the lens back and still finding that you have a front focus problem (albeit a less severe one).

[skinner]

After speaking to my dealer and Leica Germany as well, that's what I'm going to do - I'm going to send the M9 and all the lenses back for adjustment. At least then I'll know they are all spot on otherwise it will bug me, just never expected to have to do something like this with such carefully crafted expensive kit. I'll let the forum know the outcome when it all comes back - for completeness - and hopefully a happy ending, as it were.

Thanks all for your help

Steve

[DFV]

Well Steve, to me it looks like you nailed the 35 and indeed know how to focus. On the other hand the 50 is definitely wrong. Sending the M9 with the lenses is the recommended move even if it is probable that the M9 is ok.

 

Good luck!

[skinner]

Just closing this off for others who have had the same issue.

 

I sent my M9, the troubled 50 lux, the 35 cron and my 90 tele-elmerit off to Solms and they returned it in just over 2 weeks. Everything now appers to be working as I would expect so overall very much worth the minor pain of sending it all away. Thanks for all your help.

 

For those in the UK, I used Parcelforce to send it with recorded delivery, it cost about £60 with the standard insurance which didn't come anywhere near covering the full cost of replacement but it was the risk I took as the extra cost to insure it even to £2k left me with a bitter feeling, needless to say I was tracking the parcel every hour until it arrived safely.

 

Leica did it all under warranty except I asked for the old 90mm to be cleaned and 6 bit coded etc so that cost extra as expected.

 

So, if you are unhappy with your focus then I would recommend sending it to be fixed because it would have just played on my mind, no matter how much I wanted it not to be happening.

Best wishes

Steve

[jplomley]

Welcome to Leica QC. Of the two 50 Lux Asph's I tested straight out of the box, both were poorly calibrated. So I borrowed a friends, and his was off, so in it went to NJ where they tweaked it up just fine. General rule of thumb, expect to have every lens calibrated. Have you critically evaluated your 35 Cron Asph? Of the two I have tested, both have been fine at f/2 and f/2.8, but then shift behind the intended plane of focus at f/4 and f/5.6.

[dpattinson]

Just closing this off for others who have had the same issue.

 

I sent my M9, the troubled 50 lux, the 35 cron and my 90 tele-elmerit off to Solms and they returned it in just over 2 weeks. Everything now appers to be working as I would expect so overall very much worth the minor pain of sending it all away. Thanks for all your help.

 

For those in the UK, I used Parcelforce to send it with recorded delivery, it cost about £60 with the standard insurance which didn't come anywhere near covering the full cost of replacement but it was the risk I took as the extra cost to insure it even to £2k left me with a bitter feeling, needless to say I was tracking the parcel every hour until it arrived safely.

 

Leica did it all under warranty except I asked for the old 90mm to be cleaned and 6 bit coded etc so that cost extra as expected.

 

So, if you are unhappy with your focus then I would recommend sending it to be fixed because it would have just played on my mind, no matter how much I wanted it not to be happening.

Best wishes

Steve

 

Steve, I insure my gear with Glover Howe here in the UK, and they cover shipping to/from repair. I just call them to let them know I'm sending the gear. They will also cover extended trips overseas (but up to 60 day stretches are covered by default), much cheaper than getting travel insurance.

[skinner]

Thanks David, great tip, I'm certainly going to look into that.

 

Jeff, all does seem ok at the moment but I can't claim to have thoroughly critically evaluated them at all apertures yet but haven't noticed anything as obvious as the original problem yet.

Thanks all

Steve

[batmobile]

I recently had a 75 summarit that focued perfectly at 0.8 M (minimum) and infinity, but was baout six feet out at twenty feet - go figure?!?!?! Went back to leica and still waiting for it (en route back!)

[jplomley]

I think we need to start a thread polling the number of new lenses that have required fine tuning. Something tells me we would be horrified at the outcome.

[batmobile]

I think we need to start a thread polling the number of new lenses that have required fine tuning. Something tells me we would be horrified at the outcome.

 

I am shocked that when one pays so much money for a Leica lens this obviously does not include a final check to ensure it focuses remotely correctly. The error with my 75 Summarit was epic! This 50 lux asph is equally shocking.

 

I thought one of the things about leica lenses used to be that you do not need to worry about getting a good one - they are all good out the factory... guaranteed reliable performance (surely with the odd very rare problem). This is total BS now. You have to check every lens like you would a CV. History of my last two purchases:

 

75 Summarit - Needed to go back to Germany. Cost me 10 weeks shooting to date.

24 Lux asph - The one I was to get was checked over by Tony Rose and was a lemon so went back to Germany. Had to wait but the next one he checked was spot on and I got that.

 

Sounds like the 35 Lux asph II has issues too....

 

What on earth is going on? When was the last time you heard of a Zeiss ZM not focusing properly? Before anyone says 'yeah, but they dont have floating elements etc' this is true... but then again neither does the 75 Summarit!

 

There are always those ardent defenders of the faith who claim that doing performance checks on a lens is not that easy, but with the right equipment, how much time is really required to check a lens focuses accurately, say, at min, max and two middle distances? How can leica charge such prices and not include a final check of this kind before dispatch?

 

Both my 75 Summarit and this 50 lux would be picked up immediately for being faulty!

 

Its a shame. I have been shooting in Afghanistan and get my mail through the APO system. Returning a lens is a major issue. I decided to buy the 75 summarit rather than cron asph for its value but also simplicity and believed that I would certainly get a decent lens mailed out to me. We are all aware that the 75 cron has had some issues with the focus accuracy cropping up. I was appalled to find that my brand new $1500 75 f 2.5 lens was three feet out of focus at ten feet.....

[jaapv]

I think we need to start a thread polling the number of new lenses that have required fine tuning. Something tells me we would be horrified at the outcome.

The Summilux 50 asph seems especially prone. Mine had to be returned for front-focussing and many others I know of. It seems to be a very low-tolerance lens in this respect. But when it is properly set up, it is worth the trouble.

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[jplomley]

But Jaap, in this new era of the digital RF, why do they not have testing protocols in place which consider the tighter tolerance requirement for lenses. If they are going to include a QC certificate as part of the legitimacy for the cost/performance ratio, than by all accounts the vast majority of lenses leaving Solms should be perfect, and this is far from the case. To date I have had to have my 28 Cron Asph, 35 Cron Asph, 50 Cron, and 75 Cron Asph all adjusted. The only one which was perfect out of the box was the 21 Asph.