lct Posted June 29, 2010 Share #121 Posted June 29, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) ...Dealers were selling R8s that had never been owned by anyone, but that doesn't make them a "current" model. Ditto M6's - if you tried hard enough you could probably still buy a "never sold before" M6. Not a current model though... Andy, R8 and M6 are officialy discontinued, which is not the case of M8 and M8.2. We all know that the latters are not built any more but there are new M8 and M8.2 bodies in some Leica shops (at "new" prices sometimes) and those bodies can be purchased with Leica warranty by people like you and me who are perfectly entitled to count of Leica's support on a legal and moral basis IMHO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 29, 2010 Posted June 29, 2010 Hi lct, Take a look here Firmware is on its way !?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
andybarton Posted June 29, 2010 Share #122 Posted June 29, 2010 I don't disagree with you LCT, but the M8 is "discontinued". They don't make them any more. They have discontinued production. As I said, no one here is questioning Leica's on-going support for M8.x's but there is serious doubts about Frank's flight of fancy with regards to "upgrading to an M9 all bar the sensor" Big difference... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 29, 2010 Share #123 Posted June 29, 2010 No one is questioning Leica's continuing support for the M8.x But for people to argue that the M8.x is a current model, just because some dealers still have "new" stock is like trying to claim that the R8 was a current model 3 years ago. It's nonsense. Actually, I still know plenty of new R8 cameras - including five year factory guaranty- for sale. Now I could insist that Leica upgrade those to R9s Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted June 29, 2010 Share #124 Posted June 29, 2010 When did you change your name to Francis, Jaap? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted June 30, 2010 Share #125 Posted June 30, 2010 I can see the board of share holders asking vigorously for the return of Mr.Lee,to salvage the wreck. Now THAT is by far the funniest thing I have read here in years... Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticman Posted June 30, 2010 Share #126 Posted June 30, 2010 If there's a madman standing on your streetcorner each morning proclaiming that sometime he will be King of America, and instead of doing something useful with your life you stop and spend hours of every day repeating the same 'rational' arguments to dissuade him of his fallacy, which of you is the greater fool? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted June 30, 2010 Share #127 Posted June 30, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) If the alternative was to ask the authorities to have him removed, I'd prefer to argue with him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted June 30, 2010 Share #128 Posted June 30, 2010 If there's a madman standing on your streetcorner each morning proclaiming that sometime he will be King of America, and instead of doing something useful with your life you stop and spend hours of every day repeating the same 'rational' arguments to dissuade him of his fallacy, which of you is the greater fool? Some are misguided. Some meet your description above. I shall rationalise with the former, in the hope that they see the error of their ways. I am implacably opposed to the corrosive nonsense, falsehoods and disinformation spouted by the latter. Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted June 30, 2010 Share #129 Posted June 30, 2010 In 40 years of using Leicas and other cameras I've never seen anyone - pro or amateur - use a grey card. I suspect that while they may be used by some, their use isn't as common as you seem to believe. Steve did grey cards exist 40 years ago for photographers to use with their cameras? I have used one with enlargers in the darkroom for setting exposure and could imagine using one for accurate exposure setting as Nicole does on film cameras. I am trying to figure out how you would set Kelvin temperatures on a film camera or in film post processing! The reality that I have found is that once I started using a grey card I have been able to more readily and easily adjust during post processing and the results between various types of scene are more uniform. In TV studios, they use them all the time since colour TV began so that all cameras can sync up . In high end pro shoots that I have seen they use them all the time....for weddings I would agree they are used less, but maybe conscientious pros should use them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbaron Posted June 30, 2010 Share #130 Posted June 30, 2010 ... or just learn how to use their cameras. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted June 30, 2010 Share #131 Posted June 30, 2010 Frank, can you name one company in the entire world that has ever upgraded a discontinued model? Well let's start with the BMW mini.....or Porsche 911....which you could simply write off as an evoloution. Alpina BMW subsidiary is based on upgrading models as are many aftermarket companies. If we are talking cameras then M2 > M3...wind on mechanisms etc could be upgraded. Leica M8 can be upgraded to M8.2 with the new shutter and saphire glass. So Leica has a heritage in this matter and doing software / firmware upgrades is much easier than mechanical surgery. Anyhow what is your point Redbaron? If I could not give the above examples does that mean the concept is flawed? Think new business startegies .... Think iPod leading to a revenue stream from the iTunes music that Apple now sell or the 200,000 apps for the iPhone. Think system driven needs such as the garmin GPS kit for cyclists that records your heartbeat and route taken and places this on Google maps. My son just bought one and it is impressive and very different to Marine nav systems. The point is that the M8 and M9 cannot even be used in tethered mode or have the shutter electronically triggered by a PC or electrical switch. There is so much that could be done through firmware upgrades ....why are you against Leica offering this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted June 30, 2010 Share #132 Posted June 30, 2010 Steve did grey cards exist 40 years ago for photographers to use with their cameras? I expect so as they could be used as a metering aid. I am trying to figure out how you would set Kelvin temperatures on a film camera or in film post processing! I've no idea, though I could imagine them being used to help with dialling in the correct filtration when making C41 prints - since I've never printed colour in a darkroom I could be talking rubbish. In TV studios, they use them all the time since colour TV began so that all cameras can sync up . In high end pro shoots that I have seen they use them all the time....for weddings I would agree they are used less, but maybe conscientious pros should use them. I expect that's to remove minor colour temperature differances between cameras, and as you say sync them up. As I say I've never seen a pro using a grey card. That doesn't mean none of them do of course. The next time I see one shooting without a card I'll let them know they're not being conscientious. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
uptong Posted June 30, 2010 Share #133 Posted June 30, 2010 Steve did grey cards exist 40 years ago for photographers to use with their cameras? I have used one with enlargers in the darkroom for setting exposure and could imagine using one for accurate exposure setting as Nicole does on film cameras. I am trying to figure out how you would set Kelvin temperatures on a film camera or in film post processing! Umm. Never heard of Colour temperature meters and CC filters? The norm was and still is in the film world to select your film stock for the situation and then use the Meter and a filter to fine tune. Colour printing again a meter or for best results in conjunction with using a ring around for exposures and +/- colour filtration. Grey Card was around then and still is used for some metering situations. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbaron Posted June 30, 2010 Share #134 Posted June 30, 2010 Less is more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted June 30, 2010 Share #135 Posted June 30, 2010 Andy see my comments below: No one is questioning Leica's continuing support for the M8.x Agreed But for people to argue that the M8.x is a current model, just because some dealers still have "new" stock is like trying to claim that the R8 was a current model 3 years ago. It's nonsense. Who is saying that M8 is a current model ...the point was merely made (not by me) that it is still on the Leica web site....and maybe that is indicative that one can still buy one new. It is certainly not the latest M model. Dealers were selling R8s that had never been owned by anyone, but that doesn't make them a "current" model. Ditto M6's - if you tried hard enough you could probably still buy a "never sold before" M6. Not a current model though. Discontinued.Well careful if one can still buy one new from a dealer and it is on the Leica web site I believe it is a mute point if it is discontinued..........Production has been discontinued £500 for a firmware update would make Leica a laughing stock. And quite rightly too. Andy this is the part I do NOT agree on. Are you simply debating the price or what? Suppose the price was £100 is that OK or does that come into the category that Leica cannot even make a lenshood for less than £165 or a lens cap for less than £30! What is the price to value point to avoid Leica being made a laughing stock? This place really is Fantasy Island, sometimes. Not sure why you say that about the above! However I do agree in general that many people are not serious. However moderators are obviously above reproach, and are of the highest order ...in my book at least! Maybe the Love Boat will be along in a minute... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 30, 2010 Share #136 Posted June 30, 2010 I used to do a lot of color printing. Color balance was a pita. I had a dichroitic colorhed with the three RGB channels. Still I needed a number of test strips to balance the colors. Each time one started a new pack of paper the calibration changed, despite the maker printing base values on the pack (always just wrong..) And grey cards in the shot of course - and the Kodak gelatin viewing kit.... I expect so as they could be used as a metering aid. I've no idea, though I could imagine them being used to help with dialling in the correct filtration when making C41 prints - since I've never printed colour in a darkroom I could be talking rubbish. I expect that's to remove minor colour temperature differances between cameras, and as you say sync them up. As I say I've never seen a pro using a grey card. That doesn't mean none of them do of course. The next time I see one shooting without a card I'll let them know they're not being conscientious. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted June 30, 2010 Share #137 Posted June 30, 2010 Do you know what? I can't be bothered with this charade any longer. It's like banging your head against a brick wall. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! I am going to take a walk around the Quays in the sunshine this lunchtime and contemplate life, the universe and everything. Then, I am going to look forward to taking some photographs at the annual company cricket match later on. Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! I am going to take a walk around the Quays in the sunshine this lunchtime and contemplate life, the universe and everything. Then, I am going to look forward to taking some photographs at the annual company cricket match later on. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/123912-firmware-is-on-its-way/?do=findComment&comment=1365678'>More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted June 30, 2010 Share #138 Posted June 30, 2010 ... or just learn how to use their cameras. So what is your approach to using the camera in difficult lighting conditions. I am keen to learn. I use the technique that Brett taught me at Leica UK. Ouside set Kelvin 5600K and -1/3EV or -2/3EV ...which I now supplement with a grey card shot to help in post processing. Inside set manual white balance using a white card and shoot a picture of the grey card (that also has a black and white patch) ...use this in post processing. With respect to Firmware the idea of having bracketed shots at -1/3 and -2/3EV and 3/3 EV would for me be appealing with the above approach Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pintpot Posted June 30, 2010 Share #139 Posted June 30, 2010 Do you know what? I can't be bothered with this charade any longer. It's like banging your head against a brick wall. [ATTACH]209544[/ATTACH] I am going to take a walk around the Quays in the sunshine this lunchtime and contemplate life, the universe and everything. Then, I am going to look forward to taking some photographs at the annual company cricket match later on. Well you've gat a good day for it Andy Enjoy the match! Tony:) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted June 30, 2010 Share #140 Posted June 30, 2010 Assuming that you are shooting in the DNG (raw) format, the white balance set in the camera has no effect whatsoever on the image (whether manually set or Auto) except to record that value in the metadata. It will affect your low resolution preview on the LCD and any JPEG stored only. You can use it as a starting point in your converter if you default to as shot but it may be re-set with zero detriment at any time. A properly illuminated grey card in the same light can certainly provide a useful reference. However many grey cards are not in fact neutral as they are intended to provide a metering reference, not a white balance reference. The Whibal range (which has neutral white, grey and black) are a better choice. No doubt there are some others. Rotinely under-exposing by one or two thirds EV can work as a conservative approach and apparently it is a popular technique. However you should be aware that you are not using a significant proportion of your camera's possible dynamic range. The brightest stop potentially containing fully half of the recordable linear tone values (which get re-distributed in processing). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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