Angelos Viskadourakis Posted June 2, 2010 Share #141 Posted June 2, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) 1) Don't DMR files have the advantage of being true 16-bit? The only 35mm-format camera with true 16-bit file depth, I think. 2) Because of the way the M9's noise reduction adjusts blackpoint, there's definitely a difference between compressed and uncompressed files, even though a small one. I agree completely with your formulation. 3) But since the M8 doesn't use an automatic blackpoint adjustment, we can't project differences between M9 compressed and uncompressed files onto the M8. 4) (Mani, I think you're right about the LFI files in question.) The problem with any particular comparison is that someone can find fault with it--"why didn't they test XXX?" or "but the problems will show up at higher magnification" etc. The only meaningful comparison is one over a period of time such as Jaap mentions. 5) IIRC, Stefan Daniel said in the LuLa video that the M9 got the choice of uncompressed files "because you wanted it." That is, it required a new model to get it; it can't be added to the M8, for whatever reason. Nothing can be done if someone dont want to do it for whatever reason ,but as wise people are saying "If There Is A Will There is A Way". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 2, 2010 Posted June 2, 2010 Hi Angelos Viskadourakis, Take a look here M8 Firmware ?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
ho_co Posted June 2, 2010 Share #142 Posted June 2, 2010 Angelos, I don't see what relation your response has to the answer I gave Jaap and Mani, which you quoted. I like your photography, but folk wisdom doesn't apply here. If Leica could have put a choice of compressed/uncompressed into the M8, they'd have done so. If Leica could have put a table for manual lens ID setting into the M8, they'd have done so. Those points have been made repeatedly in this thread. The M8 today has all the capabilities it is going to have. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted June 2, 2010 Share #143 Posted June 2, 2010 My thought was that a manual lens selection mode similar to what was introduced on the M9 would give us an option to play and choose a lens profile similar to any new lens.... Kevin, thanks. I think I understand now what you were saying. Since we know that the M8 can't get a manual lens selection mode without hardware modification, I overlooked the point. My mistake. You're right, if the M8 had a manual lens ID menu like the M9, Leica could officially announce that it won't be getting any future compatibility updates, and that M8 owners could simply try to match new lenses to previous lens designs that had never been offered coded. It's an interesting point that I hadn't considered. But for me personally, that would seem very negative. I'm sure they're not going to come out with a new lens that would otherwise be usable on the M8 and then hobble it by not including its code in a new firmware release. At any rate, we can make all the features lists we want, and pretend that we don't believe what Leica says, and wish things were different. That's obviously what this and similar threads are about, sadly. (not you personally, just the general gist of the thread) But as Doris Day said, "Que será, será." A bit of irony here that fits the forum: The movie in which the song was introduced was "The Man who Knew too Much." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelos Viskadourakis Posted June 3, 2010 Share #144 Posted June 3, 2010 Those points have been made repeatedly in this thread. The M8 today has all the capabilities it is going to have. That will be no good . Living all my life in high end imaging devices and mediums testing for the manufacturers ,i have to disagree,all the corrections i'm suggesting are very possible with various degrees of difficulty. I dont like to repeat myself but those i'm suggesting were pointed out from day one as should have been included from the first day of M8.I remind that every P&S of 2007 was able to change EV from a button in the back,quite a lot of them had 1/3 increments in their ISO ,for the manual lens recognition i dont want even to discuss it and for the uncompressed DNG ,what we have to say ,that was not included for what reason????(yes i have read the opposition replies). i dont want to bring examples but in another similar topic thread i had post the upgrade programs of other imaging companies-most of them paid but existing,i dont like to go further for something so obvious. In the end all people agree -as every side has their own rights & wrongs-,it just never happens at the same time ,is very rare for people to synchronize their minds at the same subject the same exact moment,part of the beauty of diversities. M8 was,is & will be a total beauty(thank you Leica engineers),lets show the deserved respect. "If There Is A Will There Is A Way" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted June 3, 2010 Share #145 Posted June 3, 2010 That will be no good. But that is the fact of the matter. Wishing won't change it. I dont like to repeat myself but those i'm suggesting were pointed out from day one as should have been included from the first day of M8. ...but they were not. Wishing won't change that either. M8 was,is & will be a total beauty(thank you Leica engineers),lets show the deserved respect. ...and accept it for what it is, or buy an M9. "If There Is A Will There Is A Way" "Hope is not a strategy" Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted June 3, 2010 Share #146 Posted June 3, 2010 ...Hope is not a strategy... Helps to live though. I'm confident that a firmware update will come and that Leica will think to their customers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthunter Posted June 3, 2010 Share #147 Posted June 3, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) Amazing! What an (waist of ?) energy. It made me feel kind of guilty not to contribute So here I go .. I adore all my Leica gear but when an upgrade would become available (1) I will immediately install (and be prepared to pay for it if it would suit my needs) (2) silently thank the manufacturer for its post-sales-customer-service (3) especially if no contract for such post-sales-service exists While realizing marketing is the art of creating demand, too often also resulting in wrong customer expectations, I also expect from a reputable company to live up to their claimed unique selling points and "promises". The next generation (e.g. M9, M...) is not for everybody THE solution. And NO, while we all realize the M8 was Leica's first - and a good - digital viewfinder, I do not agree that all customers should just be satisfied with that good (expensive) tool for which improvements (no not the new generation with FF etc!) could still be made easily and just shut up and move on. The opinion of those who are satisfied as is, is appreciated and can - as far as I am concerned - live happily ever after or until they decided to spend another ton of Euro's, Dollars, ... for the next generation Cheers, Lighthunter PS I hope that those with their wisdom regarding discoveries, lyrics and quotes enjoyed the time spend surfing the web to "outsmart" others Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted June 3, 2010 Share #148 Posted June 3, 2010 ...not all knowledge comes from surfing the web, Old Chap... Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_newell Posted June 3, 2010 Share #149 Posted June 3, 2010 Nothing can be done if someone dont want to do it for whatever reason ,but as wise people are saying "If There Is A Will There is A Way". I can't believe you are saying these things. First, those who disagree with you are not stupid, contrary to your implication. Second, and more importantly, "if there is a will there is a way" is just plain wrong. There has to be the correct hardware as well, and, if you had read the posts above, some of your demands cannot be addressed without a change of hardware, which is not possible. That will be no good . Living all my life in high end imaging devices and mediums testing for the manufacturers ,i have to disagree,all the corrections i'm suggesting are very possible with various degrees of difficulty.I dont like to repeat myself but those i'm suggesting were pointed out from day one as should have been included from the first day of M8.I remind that every P&S of 2007 was able to change EV from a button in the back,quite a lot of them had 1/3 increments in their ISO ,for the manual lens recognition i dont want even to discuss it and for the uncompressed DNG ,what we have to say ,that was not included for what reason????(yes i have read the opposition replies). i dont want to bring examples but in another similar topic thread i had post the upgrade programs of other imaging companies-most of them paid but existing,i dont like to go further for something so obvious. In the end all people agree -as every side has their own rights & wrongs-,it just never happens at the same time ,is very rare for people to synchronize their minds at the same subject the same exact moment,part of the beauty of diversities. M8 was,is & will be a total beauty(thank you Leica engineers),lets show the deserved respect. "If There Is A Will There Is A Way" Reading this post, it seems to me that you have simply purchased the wrong camera. Sell it and move on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelos Viskadourakis Posted June 3, 2010 Share #150 Posted June 3, 2010 But that is the fact of the matter. Wishing won't change it. ...and accept it for what it is, or buy an M9. Regards, Bill Hello Bill,sounds you have very privileged inside info for the matter i really have zero interest for M9 for sooo many reasons in depth explained in previous posts in other threads. regards Angelos Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelos Viskadourakis Posted June 3, 2010 Share #151 Posted June 3, 2010 I can't believe you are saying these things. First, those who disagree with you are not stupid, contrary to your implication. Second, and more importantly, "if there is a will there is a way" is just plain wrong. There has to be the correct hardware as well, and, if you had read the posts above, some of your demands cannot be addressed without a change of hardware, which is not possible. Reading this post, it seems to me that you have simply purchased the wrong camera. Sell it and move on. woaoooo so much empathy........so much aggression ,and is just a forum. Is there any part of any post of my posts that is saying that anybody is "stu..d" ,i didnt know there is anyone in the planet that passionately dont want m8 evolution-never crossed my mind,but if you are the one can you explain me what you disagree with???? you disagree with a potential M8 evolution,what is your private reason???????????? As i said few lines above i love M8 and i believe that has to be treated as it deserves. And of course in all our posts so far we are talking for potential """"hardware changes""""-we have done already some of it- just read them before you reply in one post which is the evolution of hundreds before. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted June 3, 2010 Share #152 Posted June 3, 2010 ,i didnt know there is anyone in the planet that passionately dont wont m8 evolution-never crossed my mind,but if you are the one can you explain me what you disagree with???? Its about being realistic. You may as well say is there anyone on the planet who wouldn't like the M9 to cost 100 Euros. I'd imagine there are many, many people who'd like the M9 to be that price. Unfortunately wanting something to happen isn't enough to make it happen. I think that's the crux of the disagreement people have with you. You seem to think that if we want something hard enough it will come to pass. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted June 3, 2010 Share #153 Posted June 3, 2010 Angelos, you really need to step back and look at this realistically. The M8 is an evolutionary dead-end now. The M9 has superceded it. There is, and can be, no further "evolution". The most you can reasonably hope for is firmware tweaks to keep it in line with the current lens line up. Anything beyond that is a bonus. There is no merit in Leica diverting precious design, coding and testing resource into the M8 anymore now. I am glad you enjoy it, and love it so much, but it is what it is. Since you seem so fond of proverbs and folk-wisdom let me give you one more. "If wishes were horses, beggars would ride". Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelos Viskadourakis Posted June 3, 2010 Share #154 Posted June 3, 2010 Its about being realistic. You may as well say is there anyone on the planet who wouldn't like the M9 to cost 100 Euros. I'd imagine there are many, many people who'd like the M9 to be that price. Unfortunately wanting something to happen isn't enough to make it happen. I think that's the crux of the disagreement people have with you. You seem to think that if we want something hard enough it will come to pass. Hello Steve ,first is not that at all and is not mentioned anywhere,i would never like any M camera to cost 100 anything as that will destroy the value of my extensive M collection the story with M8 is as you know Very Well a little bit more complex. I didnt see anyone disagree with me ,i see few -very few that for some private reason -with an unexplained passion- to fight against M8 evolution.What i bring in that forum is not my private opinion or needs ,on the contrary is the outcome of many many many M photographers have discussed from the first day of the first digital M the last three years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted June 3, 2010 Share #155 Posted June 3, 2010 Hello Steve ,first is not that at all and is not mentioned anywhere,i would never like any M camera to cost 100 anything as that will destroy the value of my extensive M collection I think you have missed the point I was making. Perhaps that's my problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelos Viskadourakis Posted June 3, 2010 Share #156 Posted June 3, 2010 Angelos, you really need to step back and look at this realistically.now. I am glad you enjoy it, and love it so much, but it is what it is. Since you seem so fond of proverbs and folk-wisdom let me give you one more. "If wishes were horses, beggars would ride". Regards, Bill Hello Bill,another one "what goes around ,comes around" i consider myself a realist as the close future will show,and who are the "beggars" those they beg for the M8 evolution never to happen??? thank you & good night. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted June 3, 2010 Share #157 Posted June 3, 2010 Angelos, please read this very carefully. You are showing yourself to be anything but a realist. I see you are also twisting my words. That, like Steve, is probably my fault for not being clear to you in the first place. I am going to leave you to it; I see no point in continuing this debate any further. You either cannot or will not accept that the M8 is yesterday's product. The world moves on. THAT is "evolution" - survival of the fittest - and THAT in turn is why the M8 has been superseded by the M9. Good day to you. Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelos Viskadourakis Posted June 3, 2010 Share #158 Posted June 3, 2010 Angelos, please read this very carefully. You are showing yourself to be anything but a realist. I see you are also twisting my words. That, like Steve, is probably my fault for not being clear to you in the first place. I am going to leave you to it; I see no point in continuing this debate any further. You either cannot or will not accept that the M8 is yesterday's product. The world moves on. THAT is "evolution" - survival of the fittest - and THAT in turn is why the M8 has been superseded by the M9. Good day to you. Regards, Bill no intention to twist anybodys words ,and i apologize if was conceived like that,but we have to accept for many -obviously- m9 has Not Supersed Anything(just opinion of course),if someone likes it is fine but we are talking M8 here. "the fittest" is a momentary condition,not real value, the originality and the stay fit for life (see M8 Evolution) is a longer life capital.You remember ,is the first son who takes the throne ,not the one with bigger boots.Also if we accept that M8 is yesterday then M9 is yesterday as well,but lets focus on the subject which is M8.I will write in the M9 forum for my life with M9,here i will stick to my life with M8.I never see it as a debate ,more as an exchange with fellow M8 photographers/OWners.Also if never happens (possible) ,believe me ,i'm not loosing anything,is not my company after all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted June 3, 2010 Share #159 Posted June 3, 2010 thread has 159 posts and counting, if not progressing Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbelyaev Posted June 3, 2010 Share #160 Posted June 3, 2010 Readers from Leica should see that some users are concern about future of M8 and the company. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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