stunsworth Posted May 23, 2010 Share #61 Posted May 23, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) Im very confident of the people in Leica Solms that passionately work for the progress of the company and have very different approach on the subject-the discussion is not related to the merits of M8 which are a lot-but about the evolution of the M system and a policy that works in that direction and believe me my friends Leica knows better. Indeed Leica do know better. That's why they introduced the M9 as an evolutionary step beyond the M8. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 23, 2010 Posted May 23, 2010 Hi stunsworth, Take a look here M8 Firmware ?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
dcoombs Posted May 23, 2010 Share #62 Posted May 23, 2010 Angelos wrote: "you can fool some people some of the time but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time" lyrics from ASWAD. Off Topic, but Bob Marley wrote these lyrics, not Aswad (Cover).... Bob Marley - Wikiquote But Abraham Lincoln said something similar which might be the "root" to this quote... Seriously OT (but then this thread doesn't seem to be going anywhere, anyway. ), the phrase above is a corruption of Abraham Lincoln's observation, which was as follows: "You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time." Much more complete. Doug Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelos Viskadourakis Posted May 23, 2010 Share #63 Posted May 23, 2010 (edited) Thank you Doug, much more complete from Leica rumors.com Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited May 23, 2010 by Angelos Viskadourakis Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/121579-m8-firmware/?do=findComment&comment=1332367'>More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted May 23, 2010 Share #64 Posted May 23, 2010 Leica rumours just hoovers stuff up from the web. If we started a thread here saying that we knew for sure Leica were introducing a version of the Panasonic GF-1 with an R mount it would probably appear there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelos Viskadourakis Posted May 23, 2010 Share #65 Posted May 23, 2010 is this also a rumor hoovered up from the web???????dearest Steve Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/121579-m8-firmware/?do=findComment&comment=1332377'>More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted May 23, 2010 Share #66 Posted May 23, 2010 Dear Angelos, perpetual upgrades aren't going to happen. You need to accept that and move on. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbelyaev Posted May 23, 2010 Share #67 Posted May 23, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) Dear Angelos, perpetual upgrades aren't going to happen. You need to accept that and move on. Dear ALL, It is called deceiving the customers. It should not be tolerated and that is exactly what i'm doing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted May 23, 2010 Share #68 Posted May 23, 2010 It's called marketing, and the person who made the statement is no longer with the company - I expect this program was one of the nails in that particular coffin. Anyone with an ounce of engineering 'common sense' realised from the start that it was a non-starter as a means of providing perpetual upgrades. It's the photographic equivalent of expecting Ford to be able to upgrade a Model T to a Mondeo. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbelyaev Posted May 23, 2010 Share #69 Posted May 23, 2010 Mr Lee was talking on behalf of the company, therefore the company is responsible for his statements. Auto-industry announces recalls from time to time in order to deal with the problems that were unnoticed during launch of a particular model, therefore your comparison is inappropriate. How much did Toyota spend recently? Several billion dollars or something like that... No one asks leica to exchange M8 for other models. The camera has a capable sensor. JPEGs are awful, reds have magenta cast, the camera freezes 2-3 times/day... All these problems could be corrected in a new firmware. This case is a very nice example of inability to fulfill promises. Why would a reasonable person deal with that company or even defend it? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted May 23, 2010 Share #70 Posted May 23, 2010 JPEGs are awful, reds have magenta cast, the camera freezes 2-3 times/day...All these problems could be corrected in a new firmware. That is not my experience - and no one I know who uses an M8 has ever mentioned anything other than very, very, occasional freezes. I would guess - because I can't remember - that it's over a year since I last had the problem. If your camera really is freezing 2-3 times a day them you need to have it repaired. I don't shoot Jpegs so can't comment on that. The magenta problem affected black synthetic fabrics, not reds, and can't be fixed in firmware. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cocker Posted May 23, 2010 Share #71 Posted May 23, 2010 This case is a very nice example of inability to fulfill promises. Why would a reasonable person deal with that company or even defend it? Bollocks! I have spent the last 3 years taking excellent pictures with the M8 and 8.2. I have had NO problems with either camera. You don't know what you are talking about. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted May 23, 2010 Share #72 Posted May 23, 2010 Mr Lee was talking on behalf of the company, therefore the company is responsible for his statements. Maybe I should have sued my parents when I discovered that there was no Father Christmas. All those years of deceit. How could they have done that? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelos Viskadourakis Posted May 23, 2010 Share #73 Posted May 23, 2010 (edited) Maybe I should have sued my parents when I discovered that there was no Father Christmas. All those years of deceit. How could they have done that? if you have paid to buy the story from your parents based on info that were false maybe you should if this is the way you see things,but on the contrary we see them in a much more positive and progressive way,i dont see any reason anybody to sue anybody but i can see the market necessities and i strongly believe that wisdom and market knowledge will prevail.The first upgrade program was very well received and very profitable in short and long term and any other will be the same -some people have to understand that for many real professional applications the size of the M8 sensor is more than ideal and thats why we need it. 1/INTERVAL ISO 2/MANUAL lens selection 3/INFO button to adjust ISO and EV 4/UNLOCK the uncompress DNG(yes will be very slow we know from the time of digilux 2) 5/possible hardware changes if necessary of course paid.(for less noisy high iso) are those so difficult and worth to spend our time asking for them and argue among fellow Leica photographers?i believe not. Edited May 23, 2010 by Angelos Viskadourakis Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronazle Posted May 23, 2010 Share #74 Posted May 23, 2010 Maybe I should have sued my parents when I discovered that there was no Father Christmas. All those years of deceit. How could they have done that? You "discovered"? I'm pretty sure someone knew it before you. Perhaps you realized it. :)ron Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted May 23, 2010 Share #75 Posted May 23, 2010 You "discovered"? I'm pretty sure someone knew it before you. Columbus 'discovered' the New World, but that doesn't mean it was made in 1491 <grin>. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Negative Posted May 23, 2010 Share #76 Posted May 23, 2010 I think some people are losing sight of what a "fix" or an "update" is - and what is a new feature... Yes, it would be nice, proper and all that if Leica were to continue to support the M8 (some countries require 5 years after discontinuation, at least in repair parts) and give us firmware updates to correct problems. Nothing wrong with expecting this. And they do still support the hardware in terms of repairs. However, to expect Leica to add "new features" is a little much. Now granted, things like ISO selection, better high ISO/NR, manual lens selections, etc. aren't much in the way of "features" as they are improvements, still... These are new features in the M9 and part of the reason you'd buy it. For Leica to give this functionality to M8 users would be counter productive to good business practice. Saying that I, as an M8 user, would not want these features would be silly... Of course I do! We all have our priorities of what we'd like to see. An ISO shortcut via button or manual lens selection would be awesome and I'd love to have it. But Leica has already said that doing so would be difficult (or something like that) as it would require extensive firmware modification by JenOptik. It just doesn't make sense for Leica to invest money towards that end on a discontinued product, however "angry" we may be. After all, you don't see Canikon retrofitting features of newer or higher-end models into old ones, do you? They do however support and add features and things to current models - look at the 5D Mark II. Bug fixes, new video features and "corrections" abound. Leica did this for the M8 while it was current as well. I think we all felt a bit stung by the "perpetual upgrade" program. But a little common sense would say that that was a pipe dream. It's not like the M cameras are modular to the degree necessary to make that possible... Look at the internal modifications necessary in the M9 to shoehorn that FF sensor in there. A Hasselblad, sure. it's a Lego set for photographers. An M? Nah. But let's hope that Leica might see it in their hearts to do us one more solid on this one. Most of the requests really are relatively minor (firmware only) and would probably go a long way with the users. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbelyaev Posted May 23, 2010 Share #77 Posted May 23, 2010 Why would someone who is happy with M8 post here. Why are you so active/abrasive if you are satisfied with what you have? Personally, I don't care about the camera. I don't like attitude toward the customers. It is accepted by the company that the customers will swallow anything that carries the red dot sign. Sorry, for being blunt. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbelyaev Posted May 23, 2010 Share #78 Posted May 23, 2010 I think some people are losing sight of what a "fix" or an "update" is - and what is a new feature... Yes, it would be nice, proper and all that if Leica were to continue to support the M8 (some countries require 5 years after discontinuation, at least in repair parts) and give us firmware updates to correct problems. Nothing wrong with expecting this. And they do still support the hardware in terms of repairs. However, to expect Leica to add "new features" is a little much. Now granted, things like ISO selection, better high ISO/NR, manual lens selections, etc. aren't much in the way of "features" as they are improvements, still... These are new features in the M9 and part of the reason you'd buy it. For Leica to give this functionality to M8 users would be counter productive to good business practice. Saying that I, as an M8 user, would not want these features would be silly... Of course I do! We all have our priorities of what we'd like to see. An ISO shortcut via button or manual lens selection would be awesome and I'd love to have it. But Leica has already said that doing so would be difficult (or something like that) as it would require extensive firmware modification by JenOptik. It just doesn't make sense for Leica to invest money towards that end on a discontinued product, however "angry" we may be. After all, you don't see Canikon retrofitting features of newer or higher-end models into old ones, do you? They do however support and add features and things to current models - look at the 5D Mark II. Bug fixes, new video features and "corrections" abound. Leica did this for the M8 while it was current as well. I think we all felt a bit stung by the "perpetual upgrade" program. But a little common sense would say that that was a pipe dream. It's not like the M cameras are modular to the degree necessary to make that possible... Look at the internal modifications necessary in the M9 to shoehorn that FF sensor in there. A Hasselblad, sure. it's a Lego set for photographers. An M? Nah. But let's hope that Leica might see it in their hearts to do us one more solid on this one. Most of the requests really are relatively minor (firmware only) and would probably go a long way with the users. Agree. The old bugs should be fixed for free. New features should be available for extra cost. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted May 23, 2010 Share #79 Posted May 23, 2010 Why would someone who is happy with M8 post here. Why are you so active/abrasive if you are satisfied with what you have? Firstly I would disagree that people are being abrasive. They are disagreeing with certain posts, but that's part of what a forum is about. If all anyone wants to hear are other people agreeing with them then they are in the wrong place - and that is irrespective of which side of the argument you take. Personally I'm not in favour of censorship here, but that works both ways. People are perfectly entitled to disagree with me, and I am perfectly entitled to disagree with them too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelos Viskadourakis Posted May 23, 2010 Share #80 Posted May 23, 2010 (edited) i have to remind to the newcomers a short recent story:in September 2006 -being a totaly Leica photographer -and while i was shooting a film a friend introduce me an article -i believe was Financial Times or similar economy paper - about the new Leica project M8 digital that if was to succeed would keep the company into business and will be the passport in digital imaging for Leica.Almost immediately -when the camera became available few months later -i ordered my first M8.M8 is not like M9 -which was ,in my opinion,introduced in a great hurry just for the marketing word that was talking about FF which is not an actual issue for those they know digital photography(there are pros and cons in both sizes).M8 is a milestone for Leica,everybody knows that.Is very wise to be treated as such. Of course any upgrade was paid and will be paid in the future-and profitable-.I believe wisdom and market rules will prevail. And i move on with or without update or upgrades i just like as i move on to take Leica M with me in the evolution journey. Edited May 23, 2010 by Angelos Viskadourakis Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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