M8 Firmware ?

[pgk]

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Why would someone who is happy with M8 post here.

Well in my case because I'm fed up with the whining and moaning about what I have found to be a perfectly good, usable camera. The constant running down of the M8 simply creates concerns which are invalid - its a good little camera with stunningly good lenses.

 

If you look at definitions of 'perpetual' you will find that it means something akin to 'forever'. Now if anyone really thinks that Leica was intent on supporting a camera 'forever' then they are exceedingly naive - this was clearly and obviously marketing talk! If on the other hand, you want to argue that perpetual should actually mean a different time span, then that is a different argument and there is no simple answer.

 

Right that's my last word in this thread. Enjoy:D!

[Gerjan]

Paul,

good story,I find my M8 a perfect machine.

I don't need any firmware or changes. There are to many stories about this in the forum. Coming or not does not change the fact that the Leica M8 and it's lenses are making beautiful pictures.

Gerjan

[Angelos Viskadourakis]

dearest Paul & Gerjan

of course Leica M8 is very close and touching perfection thats why is worth to achieve perfection with the very little needed to be done.

[Double Negative]

dearest Paul & Gerjan

of course Leica M8 is very close and touching perfection thats why is worth to achieve perfection with the very little needed to be done.

 

Of course I wholeheartedly agree that the M* cameras are touching on perfection... Indeed, I really don't have any "real" complaints about my own M8. I love it, and it takes fantastic pictures for me. It has replaced my Canon gear as the "first grab choice."

 

But I have to point out that even if these wish lists are implemented to the letter, you and I know full well that there will be several threads posted on various forums the next day about how much it sucks, why they left ____ out, or why didn't they ____?

 

Let's face it. Nothing can ever truly be perfect for everyone - especially if there's a forum involved! Heh. It's funny, really. Here you have the simplest digital camera short of a Holga and yet there's still plenty to moan about.

[Angelos Viskadourakis]

very wise your talk Double Negative.Running a forum myself as administrator i can tell that what you say is unfortunately true.The policy i apply in the forum i administrate is only pointing out the problem and propose solutions not cursing and complaining,so in this forum i try to be very pragmatic and proposing easy solutions that are very simple to be applied if there is a honest will on the other side,so the changes i propose for M8 are changes that had to be done way before the presentation of M9 as after that presentation became very visible that was very easy to apply in M8 ,even now-with great delay, so i find myself to wonder why is happening so late,so slow.I strongly believe that any evolution to M8 will by no means affect M9 sales on the contrary will support them even more .To make it clear in my work i need the sensor size of M8 and i will buy the next M that will have a similar sensor-i never bought the idea of 24x36 sensor advantage as for my work is only disadvantage but i realy need an M8 as it should be from day one .

 

 

(24x36 gates was a necessity with film grain structure for minimum accepted quality but is not like that at all with digital and the need of more telecentric lenses,24x36 creates more problems than it solves,but this is a talk for another thread,it was just forced by market noise and is not a technical improvement)

[Guest Chris M]

WOW!! interesting takes and theory's, I miss my M8 just the way it was with firmware 2.004 I had no complants what so ever. Everybody (MUST REMEMBER) This was Leicas FIRST ATTEMPT of a Digital Rangefinder, and I think they nailed it! for the first time out. Do what I did, {but for a different reason}, sell your M8 if your so bitter that leica is not going to provide another FW update and buy an M9;) Boy I sure got the blood flowing. didn't mean too though. Sorry:eek: My X1 arrives tomorrow:) and my VLUX 20 on Tuesday

 

chris

[Angelos Viskadourakis]

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i;m no bitter at all and have zero interest in M9 even much less for X1 or Vlux,i own already plenty of similar leica efforts.M8 corrections will happen anyway according to my knowledge .M8 is the entry ticket and will be treated as such.Enjoy your new cameras.You will discover the benefits of proper size sensors now.

 

Flickr: Angelos Viskadourakis' Photostream

 

you can check my leica photos.

 

regarding sizes see bellow attachments for the sizes of film gates/sensors for the movies projected in the large large large large screen(regarding the importance -not-of 24x36 size sensors in modern era)

The last two movies i shot the gate was 24,9x13,9 and they were super sharp and brilliant in the very large screens of cinema @ shutter speed 1/50th of a second.And ofcourse were super sharp in the tv smaller version to be viewed by a much shorter distance.

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[Ronazle]

Columbus 'discovered' the New World, but that doesn't mean it was made in 1491 <grin>.

 

Steve,

Please, while you may be right (or correct), your example is poor. To wit: the new world was discovered by the Vikings, the same people who brought civilization to the British Isles, Russia, and much of Europe. (slight grin)

[Double Negative]

Steve,

Please, while you may be right (or correct), your example is poor. To wit: the new world was discovered by the Vikings, the same people who brought civilization to the British Isles, Russia, and much of Europe. (slight grin)

 

Wait, did someone say... Vikings?!

 

[john_newell]

dearest john that is completely not true,there are thousands of M8 owners expecting the new firmware or hardware corrections,had been very long threads about the subject with very specific descriptions of what should be corrected and why,unfortunately -like in all forums-a team tried to ridicule the subject and all serious photographers stop writing,if you are happy from the current firmware you can keep it for ever is not mandatory to correct the issues in your M8 if you dont want ,but others do and expect it.

 

Expecting is fine...but the camera works as is. M8 owners (including me) probably ought to worry more about hardware-related issues than firmware tweaks, most of which are, bluntly, incremental. Even if Leica posts no further firmware updates, the camera remains a very viable imaging tool. If you don't agree, it's time to sell yours and move on, I think?

 

What’s truly sad is that some people actually believe the firmware is holding them back from shooting great pictures with their M8. If you fail when using the current version of the firmware, don’t expect any more success with the next.

 

 

 

do you actualy know someone who believe something like that???????????????

 

I, for one, and based on this thread, I am not at all alone.

 

Thanks to Double Negative for the very sane and cogent thoughts below, with which I agree.

 

By the way, if anyone knows who at Leica I can talk to about the promised perpetual upgrade of my M3, I would be grateful. I have been waiting since 1956 for the viewfinder upgrade for 35mm lenses, and I do not consider the RF finder adapters a proper fix for this defect in the camera.

 

Just kidding, of course...

 

 

I think some people are losing sight of what a "fix" or an "update" is - and what is a new feature...

 

Yes, it would be nice, proper and all that if Leica were to continue to support the M8 (some countries require 5 years after discontinuation, at least in repair parts) and give us firmware updates to correct problems. Nothing wrong with expecting this. And they do still support the hardware in terms of repairs.

 

However, to expect Leica to add "new features" is a little much. Now granted, things like ISO selection, better high ISO/NR, manual lens selections, etc. aren't much in the way of "features" as they are improvements, still... These are new features in the M9 and part of the reason you'd buy it. For Leica to give this functionality to M8 users would be counter productive to good business practice.

 

Saying that I, as an M8 user, would not want these features would be silly... Of course I do! We all have our priorities of what we'd like to see. An ISO shortcut via button or manual lens selection would be awesome and I'd love to have it. But Leica has already said that doing so would be difficult (or something like that) as it would require extensive firmware modification by JenOptik. It just doesn't make sense for Leica to invest money towards that end on a discontinued product, however "angry" we may be.

 

After all, you don't see Canikon retrofitting features of newer or higher-end models into old ones, do you? They do however support and add features and things to current models - look at the 5D Mark II. Bug fixes, new video features and "corrections" abound. Leica did this for the M8 while it was current as well.

 

I think we all felt a bit stung by the "perpetual upgrade" program. But a little common sense would say that that was a pipe dream. It's not like the M cameras are modular to the degree necessary to make that possible... Look at the internal modifications necessary in the M9 to shoehorn that FF sensor in there. A Hasselblad, sure. it's a Lego set for photographers. An M? Nah.

 

But let's hope that Leica might see it in their hearts to do us one more solid on this one. Most of the requests really are relatively minor (firmware only) and would probably go a long way with the users.

[Angelos Viskadourakis]

very wise your talk Double Negative.Running a forum myself as administrator i can tell that what you say is unfortunately true.The policy i apply in the forum i administrate is only pointing out the problem and propose solutions not cursing and complaining' date='so in this forum i try to be very pragmatic and proposing easy solutions that are very simple to be applied if there is a honest will on the other side,so the changes i propose for M8 are changes that had to be done way before the presentation of M9 as after that presentation became very visible that was very easy to apply in M8 ,even now-with great delay, so i find myself to wonder why is happening so late,so slow.I strongly believe that any evolution to M8 will by no means affect M9 sales on the contrary will support them even more .To make it clear in my work i need the sensor size of M8 and i will buy the next M that will have a similar sensor-i never bought the idea of 24x36 sensor advantage as for my work is only disadvantage but i realy need an M8 as it should be from day one .

 

 

(24x36 gates was a necessity with film grain structure for minimum accepted quality but is not like that at all with digital and the need of more telecentric lenses,24x36 creates more problems than it solves,but this is a talk for another thread,it was just forced by market noise and is not a technical improvement)[/quote']

 

dear john the above post is answering in almost all you are mentioning.Also as i mention earlier M8 is so close to perfection ,just Leica has to correct those things that should be corrected much-much -much earlier ,before the appearance of other models but is never late to be right.We all do mistakes and our friends point them out to help us to correct them.Before our enemies find our weaknesses.

I love the M3 story,do you thing history repeating?????????

[parigby]

Like the humour behind the M3 point.

[gwelland]

Steve,

Please, while you may be right (or correct), your example is poor. To wit: the new world was discovered by the Vikings, the same people who brought civilization to the British Isles, Russia, and much of Europe. (slight grin)

 

Of course the indigenous populations already in place in all those places might dispute this ...

[jlindstrom]

Well, I took the bull by the horns and mailed Stefan Daniel about the M8 firmware update. He said that there's no date he can reliably commit to, but assured that it's in Leicas intention to keep the M8 firmware up to date regarding compability and reliability.

 

I find his answer reassuring in the sense that I interpret it the way we'll see updates in the future for at least new 6-bit codes. Also it means that necessary bugs will be ironed out in the future as well. I think this a fair bit more than many other vendors do regarding supporting end of production gear.

 

So let's just hang back and wait for the news. The update will be ready when it's ready. Don't expect anything major, but rest assured we're not forgotten

 

//Juha

[bill]

Juha, thank you for the injection of commonsense into this thread. Well done.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[john_newell]

Fascinating. I don't mean any disrespect to anyone when I say that I'm surprised he answered the email. That certainly says something about Leica's attitude towards its customers. Thanks for doing that, and thanks for the report!

 

Well, I took the bull by the horns and mailed Stefan Daniel about the M8 firmware update. He said that there's no date he can reliably commit to, but assured that it's in Leicas intention to keep the M8 firmware up to date regarding compability and reliability.

 

I find his answer reassuring in the sense that I interpret it the way we'll see updates in the future for at least new 6-bit codes. Also it means that necessary bugs will be ironed out in the future as well. I think this a fair bit more than many other vendors do regarding supporting end of production gear.

 

So let's just hang back and wait for the news. The update will be ready when it's ready. Don't expect anything major, but rest assured we're not forgotten

 

//Juha

[UliWer]

Well, I took the bull by the horns and mailed Stefan Daniel about the M8 firmware update. ..

 

Thanks for asking and telling us!

 

I quoted you post in the german forum.

[ho_co]

Juha--

Thanks for reminding us once again. At least Stefan is consistent. That's exactly the same thing he already said in the Reichmann M9 intro video (IIRC), and definitely the same thing that was reported here, viz that there would definitely be at least one more M8 update, and possibly even paid upgrades.

 

It's interesting how such a specific statement can be forgotten or denied by nay-sayers, so we repeatedly get threads such as this one.

 

Just keeps the Leica juices flowing, I guess.

[Angelos Viskadourakis]

Well, I took the bull by the horns and mailed Stefan Daniel about the M8 firmware update. He said that there's no date he can reliably commit to, but assured that it's in Leicas intention to keep the M8 firmware up to date regarding compability and reliability.

 

I find his answer reassuring in the sense that I interpret it the way we'll see updates in the future for at least new 6-bit codes. Also it means that necessary bugs will be ironed out in the future as well. I think this a fair bit more than many other vendors do regarding supporting end of production gear.

 

So let's just hang back and wait for the news. The update will be ready when it's ready. Don't expect anything major, but rest assured we're not forgotten

 

//Juha

 

well said.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[grduprey]

do you actualy know someone who believe something like that???????????????

 

If You think that the firmware is keeping you from making better photographs, you are seriously in error. You are the one that needs the firmware update not the camera.

 

Also Leica did not mention the update program until the camera was already on the market. And the Leica official who made the statement was discharged shortly after making the said statement.

 

As for the tool (M8) it works just fine, no red shift that I can find, and I have had mine since the end of the first production run (Month 3 after intro), with zero failures.

 

If a new firmware does show up, great, but it will certainly not keep me from making great photos if it never comes.