Ex-SLR Users New To Leica

[scottygraham]

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My question is really not for the experienced Leica/Rangefinder shooters.

 

My question is focused to anyone out there NEW to Leica and the Rangefinder that took the plunge and traded their SLR in for the M9....if you are in this category, did you find it difficult to adjust using a rangefinder?...ie, did you find it difficult to get used to manual focus and did you find it difficult composing your images without looking through the lens? Do you regret making the switch?

 

I know what you (experienced M users) are going to say...."Scotty, rent an old M6 or M7 before buying the M9 to try it out..." Well, that is not an option for me here in Indonesia...if I get the M9, I will just need to go in and buy one...and the above questions are lurking in my mind....

 

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide....

[jaapv]

My question is really not for the experienced Leica/Rangefinder shooters.

 

Maybe not.. But a large proportion of rangefinder shooters here shoot a DSLR as well, and use both systems. It is not either-or.

[Janan]

Hi Scotty,

 

I got the M9 two days ago. Only used DSLR before. Like you, buying another leica first wasnt an option and taking the plunge was a huge risk as i had never tried one before. the only person i know who had one had it stolen when he went to south africa with his family and is still waiting for a replacement.

 

Focusing is easier than i expected 3 or 4 tries and i got it down but i must say the focusing box in the middle of the view finder is pretty small. I am still unsure of which ISO setting to use auto iso seems to be set on one setting only and doesnt change automatically. not always sure what aperture to use, and the the dial on the top i have no idea what it does so i just put it on A for now. i did manage to get a few pretty decent shots already. I guess its a learning process dont expect miracles.

 

Janan

[rennsport]

Scotty,

 

I'd been shooting SLR for the last 20 years or so. I recently 'took the plunge' as you described. It's been four months now and I have no regrets at all. But to be fair, I must tell you a bit more.

 

I started shooting B&W films and making my own prints. At some point in time, I was able to 'see' the pictures before I shoot them. In this aspect, I have no problem with using a rangefinder. I've also been using a few SLR lens between the focal length of 24-70mm almost all the time in recent years, so I'm very comfortable with the range of lens Leica has to offer. I shoot a mixture of landscapes and family portraits but I'm not a professional photographer.

 

My biggest challenge moving to the M9 is the focusing aspect. I've tried a few manual SLR lens over the years with little success. Their focus throws were simply too long. The focus throw on the M lens is generally much shorter, making it very easy to focus. Of course, there are a few exceptions such as the Noctilux. It does take a little bit of practice at the beginning. You must try to 'see' the picture first, pick your focal point even before raising the camera.

 

What I love about the M9 is that the camera is built to be the best and simplest photography tool there is. It doesn't get in your way, nor your subjects. It's light and compact so it can be taken anywhere easily. I've been shooting fewer pictures with my M9, but I also have more pictures that I really love compare to pictures from my DSLR.

 

Pairing it with my DLux 4, I've just shot my best digital series on our recent trip to the Maldives. I couldn't be happier with my M9!

[scottygraham]

HI Jaapv,

 

No hard feelings...I certainly respect the views of the experienced Leica user, and you are certainly welcome to express your opinion...I always respect what you have to say, and have enjoyed browsing your excellent work.

 

Most on this forum (you included) have been using rangefinder cameras for decades, and switching from a DSLR to the rangefinder is no big deal for you folks as you are already familiar with the rangefinder...therefore, I was seeking the views of people like myself that have zero experience shooting a rangefinder camera....I don't want to have buyer's remorse, and really want to know how the new Leica owner is adjusting to a very different tool....

 

Thanks, Rennsport and Janan....

[SJP]

From a technical/operation point of view there is not much difference between a rangefinder and any other camera (heresy! I know:D). The primary factor is that Leica M's are "manual", no AF, limited auto exposure gizmo's etc. You decide for yourself & if the picture is no good it is operator error, the camera is too stupid to be responsible for anything.

 

I used SLR's (Soligor/Praktica, Nikon FM2, F3), rangefinders (Olympus XA), P&S (Nikon Coolpix 4500) and a few others, including disposable camera's. The basic problem with all cameras is: framing, exposure, aperture, ISO and to a minor extent color balance/B&W.

 

Anyway, my first experience in Leica teriitory was the M2: first film (B&W) was pretty abysmal as I had to learn the exposure guestimating game on the fly, 2-nd film was dead easy as it was a nice sunny day & sunny 16 rule worked fine with some minor tweaks. Focussing was not an issue either with f/16 or similar catching most errors. This got me hooked and I bought the M8 + summicron 28/2 ASPH. The first couple of 100 pictures were a bit challenging - but some were convincing enough to keep me sticking in there.

 

Still difficult after 2½ years: getting exposure right (no blown highlights), accurate framing - mostly OK by now though, nailing 90 mm @ f/2.8 focus - also mostly OK by now.

 

Still fun after 2½ years: taking pictures and thinking about what you are doing, it is not a camera that runs particularly well on auto-pilot and this is part of the enjoyment. Maybe it is this aspect which focusses the attention & helps to get good results?

[ianspector]

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Dear Scotty,

 

I bought my M9 in December and have only used my Nikon D3 as a mount for my 600mm lens. I shoot everything with my M9, and I have it with me every day. I bought the 28mm Cron, Voigtlander 35mm f/1.4 and the 90mm Cron ASPH. The 90mm frustrated me to no end and I struggled to get a sharp image. In testing I found it to front focus by some 4cm at relatively near distances. As I shoot largely wide open this was a depressing purchase. The 28mm is a sparkling marvel, beautiful to focus and insanely tiny.

 

Everything changed when I bought a used Noctilux f/1 from Steve Huff. Even though I shoot just about everything at f/1 I rarely get a shot out of focus. I can nail that lens time and time again. It is helped by the long focus throw. I have not taken that lens off my M9 for the last 4 months so it may be that my focus technique has improved, but focus is rarely an issue for me.

 

Now I believe that Nikon's focus system on the D3 relies on magic, it seems to know who I want the focus to rest on and it will track that fast moving object through thick and thin. One thing that I never seem to see written about is the freedom the Leica gives me. The M9 never wants to shift focus as I move the camera, I do not have to have the focus point under a sensor in the viewfinder and it never tries to grab the focus of something that moves in front of the lens. It never hunts for focus in poor light and it gives joy just to focus the camera. Framing is much better than with an SLR as you get to see what is around the frame. More of an advantage than I expected.

 

Having said all that, just because the M9 was right for me, it does not mean that it is right for you. I would never recommend someone buys one without having a way out unless you are prepared to sell it if you hate it.

 

Ian

[earleygallery]

Scotty,

 

It might help you to point out the things which you might miss from an SLR & consider if they are important to you.

 

Telephoto- anything longer than 90mm isn't very practical (yes there is a goggled 135mm and old visoflex lenses but...).

 

Depth of field preview- when you look through an slr you are seeing the image from the lens at the widest aperture and most have a depth of field preview button so that you can stop down and see the effect of using a smaller aperture. The rangefinder image is constant, everything is visible in focus and only the framelines change.

 

Perspective - as above you don't get to see the exact effect on perspective, especially for wider lenses, and need to visualise the effect.

 

Filters - it's not so easy to use polariser or graduated and special effect filters again because you are not seeing the effect directly.

 

AF - if you are used to AF it's just a case of getting used to manual focus instead, but could take a while if you like action photography.

 

Metering - the M uses a very simple kind of meter, you will need to understand how it works and how best to use it in practice, unlike multi point systems in most modern slrs.

 

The above are plus points for most M users but you need to decide what suits you best. Good luck with your decision!

[Bartie]

I have had an M9 for about 5-6 months.I do still use my Canon gear,but to be honest with you I`m using the Canon less as each week goes by.With the Leica you have much more control of the picture taking.The speed of focusing etc comes with practice.I can compose and focus a shot as fast with my M9 as I can using my 1ds mk2.

I know this has nothing to do with the actual picture taking but when I have the Leica in my hand it feels special.

 

Andy

[ggits]

Hi Scotty,

 

I got my M9 dec last year. Only before used SLR.

 

I never found that focussing was difficult, but I very often found that my shots was "quite bad" And of course - wrong F, Bad Focus, Short Closing time.

 

But when I follow simply rules : Outdoor ISO 160 / 80, Shutter time in A.

 

If I don't want draw the attention on a specific object in my shot - I place the F in position 4 and down to 16 - depending of light.

 

If I want to make an object to stand in my shot I go with F 1.4 / 2.0

 

So to be short - I like 90% of my shots today, and few is really !!

[sanyasi]

I never used a rangefinder until this past February, when my M9 arrived. I had only used Canon SLRs and DSLRs. My observations are as follows:

 

A. It took somewhere around 2,500 shots before I consistently got the focus I desired. Now, about 90% of my shots are focused as planned. What has surprised me are my results when the aperture is set 2.0. That obviously is a much harder shot to get right, but I am achieving excellent results. I actually prefer the rangefinder focusing because I feel more in control--with every shot, I have to focus so I don't get lazy and rely on the DSLR's system.

 

B. Having said that, I was out this weekend shooting action photography with my M9. In the future, I think I will return to my Canon DSLR for action photography. Part of the action required me to walk backwards while focusing on people who were moving. That is tough.

 

C. In my mind, there is no question that the m9 renders color far better than the DSLR. I use Lightroom and I found that I was constantly adding saturation in Lightroom to the Canon shots--not a lot, but some. I generally don't touch those controls when shooting with the M9 and the color looks better unadjusted than the Canon shots look after adjustment.

 

D. Everyone says it, the Leica lenses are "magical." I start as a skeptic, but I have spent a lot of time cleaning up my hard drives over the last two months, which means I looked at lot of Canon DSLR photos shot with Canon L Lenses. Very satisfying photos, but I must admit, I am beginning to see a quality difference between the Leica lenses and the Canon lenses. I have trouble putting it into words, but in my terms, there is more depth to the Leica photos.

 

E. I have been shooting every weekend so I suspect I would improve no matter what camera I was using, but I have to say, the simplicity of the M9 has made me think a lot more about what aperture I use and how I can expose the scene better. As I said, that may come from shooting more often and thinking about it more, but the M9 has helped me learn about how to take a photo. In fact, some of that thinking is influencing how I use the DSLR when I return to it.

 

F. I think people overstate the size of DSLRs, but there is no question that the M9 is a pleasure to use when walking around the city hunting for photos. I just subscribed to a photo magazine and they gave me a small camera bag for a point and shoot. I can put two lenses in there, three batteries, four SD cards, and a cloth. Put is over my shoulder and carry the M9. Very little weight and quite comfortable.

 

Overall, the m9 is great, but I wouldn't sell your DSLR.

 

Hope that helps your decision.

[tgray]

I know you said you expected to hear this, but I'd still get a film RF first. A decent M2 will cost $400-500, which is a fraction of the cost of an M9. Try it out and use it first.

 

You might love RFs, you might hate them. I came to RFs from a DSLR and I love it, but I don't shoot macro, much action (sports, etc.), telephoto, etc. All the things that SLRs excel at.

[tom in mpls]

I think people overstate the size of DSLRs...

Although DSLR bodies are bigger, the issue for me was really the lenses which are much bigger and heavier; the large front elements create the intimidating "eye" that photo subjects may dislike.

[johnwolf]

Scotty,

 

I switched to a rangefinder (M8) after years of SLR experience, used the RF for about 18 months, and then switched back to an SLR (5DII). Maybe in an ideal world I would own both, but, as a hobbyist, I cannot justify that. I also prefer the familiarity of one system.

 

I had no trouble with RF focus; in fact, it was very clear and comfortable right away. When I used AF with the SLR, I always focused with the center spot. I did not find much practical difference between that method and the RF patch focusing. You pick your focus point and focus there. No question, though, AF lock is pretty handy. I have also always shot in aperture priority, so that took no adjustment either.

 

I switched back to a DSLR system for it's flexibility. I shoot in the 100 to 200mm range a lot. Even in landscapes I prefer details to vistas. And I like space compression offered by longer lenses.

 

I also prefer the DSLR viewfinder. But I don't shoot action, so I don't care about seeing what is entering the frame. And, apart from size, I much prefer the 5DII handling. Its contoured body feels better in my hand than the angular Leica body. I even prefer the larger lenses. The 35L on the 5DII seem about perfect to me. Too much is made of the size/weight difference, in my view.

 

Anyway, if you're an experienced photographer, I doubt you'll have any issues adjusting to M9 mechanics. Whether you will like the experience over the long haul is more a question of the type of shooting you do.

 

All the best with your decision.

 

John

[larryk34]

Since no one mentioned it yet, I'll pass on the focusing tip that a forum member passed on for the M6. Leave the lens at infinity most of the time so that you always start at the same place. Without thinking. Not as close focus, not somewhere in the middle. When ready to shoot, turn the focus wheel the only direction it can go. When it comes into focus you'll go slightly past focus. Then just move it back to perfect focus. Once, if possible. In other words, stop: don't go back and forth hunting around for a better focus (most of the time anyway, always exceptions like when you're shooting portrait and trying to focus on the right eye lash!). This approach to focusing can be done very very quicky. Some would say as fast as autofocus only you focus where you want to focus. It get easier and faster with practice. I still prefer it to autofocus.

[Jamie Roberts]

{snipped}

 

And do we really think the M10 will have a Kodak CCD? I'd guess not. This may be the end of the line for the Leica-Kodak connection. That Kodak sensor is another reason I enjoy the M9. They're, sadly, about at the end of the line also.

{snipped}

 

Do you really think Kodak will no longer play in the professional market? Just curious. I personally think it's way too early to tell if the M10 will have a Kodak sensor or not, or a CCD sensor or not.

 

Anyway, to the original point, I'd say coming from an TLR to SLR to RF was an interesting progression and I loved the RF from the moment I tried it. Lots of other people have said it, but it is a love-hate thing for sure. Even though it sounds impossible for you, if you can try a rangefinder first, it would be the smart thing to do.

[PayPerView]

It's not an either or...at least for me.

 

I have several camera's and each has their purpose.. I think you might suffer buyers remorse if you traded in your DSLR and bought a rangefinder...If you stay with the Leica you would probably eventually (perhaps quickly) fall head over heels in love with it.

 

I use my DSLR's as needed but for street photography and most of my work, it's one of the best purchases I have ever made...and I am not just talking about cameras!

[PayPerView]

Since no one mentioned it yet, I'll pass on the focusing tip that a forum member passed on for the M6. Leave the lens at infinity most of the time so that you always start at the same place. Without thinking. Not as close focus, not somewhere in the middle. When ready to shoot, turn the focus wheel the only direction it can go. When it comes into focus you'll go slightly past focus. Then just move it back to perfect focus. Once, if possible. In other words, stop: don't go back and forth hunting around for a better focus (most of the time anyway, always exceptions like when you're shooting portrait and trying to focus on the right eye lash!). This approach to focusing can be done very very quicky. Some would say as fast as autofocus only you focus where you want to focus. It get easier and faster with practice. I still prefer it to autofocus.

 

I read that tip as well but much prefer leaving it in the middle with my 35mm 2.0..makes more sense to me but it's personal preference of course.

[Stealth3kpl]

Although DSLR bodies are bigger, the issue for me was really the lenses which are much bigger and heavier; the large front elements create the intimidating "eye" that photo subjects may dislike.

 

This is why I'm trying an M8.2. I like to travel but I want excellent optics and not the weight. I thought I'd be missing the quality of the D700 files but the M8.2's sensor resolution, and image quality of the tiny lenses even in the corners is excellent. I also get the impression that I can reclaim highlights and get a better dynamic range than with the D700/NX2 combo. Take this file for example. With my nikon I would expect to be sacrificing the dark and mid tones inorder to save the highlights whilst shooting NEF. However, with the M8.2 I haven't even got into the habit of checking for blown highlights (something I was fastidious about with the D700 and all my previous DSLRs). In fact, this image file didn't require any highlight reclaimation. I know it's not a brilliant photo but I'll snap anything at the moment to get used to what the camera/LR3 can do:D.

On the focussing issue, I find it difficult to focus on a close object (~0.7m) and recompose keeping the object within the shallow DOF of the lens but I'm hoping this will improve once the focus mechanism has been checked by Milton Keynes.

Also, composition seems fine if objects are beyond about 2meters but if there is something closer than 2 m when focusing into the distance, the close object can appear in the file! This was something I didn't predict.

There's certainly alot to take into account in moving from DSLR to M and it will involve some sacrificing of the sort of images I often like to take (close-ups particlarly). It'll take some time to decide if I can part with the D700. I've an awful suspicion that I'm going to be carrying 2 systems around for a while!

Pete

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[dalecook]

Scott,

 

I'm an ex DSLR user and I would hesitate to recommend such an expensive switch without at least holding and experimenting with focus in a store before purchasing. As others have mentioned, there are various pros and cons to an M8 and M9 versus a DSLR and your satisfaction and results will largely depend on how comfortable you are with the camera. I think shooting with a rangefinder has a lot to do with your style and what you're comfortable with.

 

For me, my first experience was with an Epson RD-1 which I purchased while owners a professional series Canon. I found myself using the Epson more often despite its resolution and capability limitations when compared to the Canon mostly because of its size and portability. Like they say...the best camera is the one you have with you and quite frankly that was more often than not the rangefinder.

 

Asking this question on this forum will generally provide you with a bias towards the M9 which is to be expected from those have often been in a similar situation, tested both, and ultimately went with the rangefinder. I think it's important that you don't get a false positive because $7k (plus lenses) is just too muich money to spend based on anyone's feedback. You simply need to try it first or stick with what you have until you can.

 

Hope this is helpful. And yes, I am very satisfied with my purchase of the M9 which was largely subsidized from the sale of all my DSLR gear.