Name this car....

[wlaidlaw]

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For the correct price (bring a very large wad of €200 notes) and a trip to the workshop in Livorno (Leghorn), they will build you a brand new P538, even today. If you want the V12 engine (most unwise), I believe you will either have to take an even larger wad of notes to Crossthwaite and Gardner in the UK, who will make you a V12 or have expensive and extensive modifications made to a Lamborghini 400S motor or Ferrari 365GT - 4 cam to fit. It always amuses me to see expensive Italian racing cars, with cheap horrible rubber engine cover safety straps, when for just a few lira more, they could have used flush-fitting aircraft hatch latches or failing that, just use through pins and R clips. 

 

Wilson

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[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Wilson,

 

Does the 365GT - 4 cam which you wrote about just above have any relationship to a 1965 Ferrari 365GTB/4 convertible?

 

The "4" in this second instance being 4 Weber carberators.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

[wlaidlaw]

Michael, 

 

The 4 cam motor first appeared in the 275GTB/4 (4 for 4 camshafts) in 1966, as the single cam/bank 3.3L motor used in the earlier 275GTB from 1964 and 275GTB/C (C for Competitione) was really at the end of its development. The 275 single cam engine was also used in the 275 GTS, which was basically a re-engined California, not related to the 275GTB. The 4 cam 3,3L engine was also used in the very rare and valuable (if not very nice to drive) NART 275GTB Spider. The 365GTB/4 (4 for 4 cams) is the correct name for the Daytona, made from 68 to 73 and used a 4.4L 4 cam dry sump engine. There were a very few factory spider versions of this but a lot of 365GTB/4's have later had their roofs cut off. There was also a 365GTC, which used a 4.4L single cam/bank engine and was a development of the 330GTC. To complicate matters there was also a 330 GT which was a softer 2+2 car also using a 4.0L single cam engine but in a lower state of tune. The 365GTC was made in tiny numbers, as was its open top equivalent the 365GTS (for Spider). The 365GTC was quite quickly replaced by two cars, the quite rare 365GTC/4 with 4 for 4 cam engine, which had 2 seats and 2 for legless dwarves and the 365GT4, with an identical 4 cam engine, which was a large 4 seater, with the same body as the later 400, 400i and 412i. People use all sorts of incorrect nomenclatures for various Ferrari's but I think all of the above is correct. There were various hand built specials (by Ferrari themselves, Scaglietti, Boano, Drogo etc) using different motors and subsequent modifications to existing cars with different engines, just to complicate matters. Another difference between the 365 engine in the Daytona and the other 365 4 cam engines is that the Daytona was dry sump and used 6 x dual choke downdraft 40 DCN carburettors feeding into the centre of the bank or 6 x IDA 45 carburettors on competition models. The other 365 engines used 6 x 38 or 40 DCOE18 horizontal carburettors feeding between the double overhead cams and a wet sump. 

 

Now if you think that is complicated, then the history of the "250" cars is even more complicated with around 15 variations. 

 

Wilson

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Wilson,

 

That is very interesting.

 

The model that I am writing about came both as a hard top & as a factory original convertible. I thought the /4 was for the 4 Weber carberators. Interesting that it is for 4 cams.

 

For some reason I was pretty sure it was 1965. The convertible was definitely red.

 

Than you for the information.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

[a.j.z]

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Edited August 15, 2017 by a.j.z

[wlaidlaw]

Michael, 

 

I cannot think of any V12 Ferrari that had 4 carburettors but there may be some odd ones I don't know about or remember. The normal number was 6 or 3, with a few early cars with just 2.

 

Ferrari were homologating the 275GTB/C (Competitione), which is the car that looks like a regular road going 2 cam 275GTB.  However, every body panel is different, as is the chassis, the position of the engine in the chassis and all the internals of both the engine and gearbox. Ferrari made an error from not understanding the homologation document, which was in English and French. When it came to the carburettors, they put down 6, as it was intended to run with 6 x 40 DCN17 dual choke Webers or maybe 6 x 40 IDF. The homologation document actually asked how many chokes did the carburettors have in total and the answer should have been 12. They ended up having to race the car with just 3 x 40 DFI3 carburettors. In the end, it was found that this actually made the engine more reliable and most of the 16 cars built had very successful competition careers. The 275GTB/C actually mades a nicer handling road car than the somewhat pendulous regular 275GTB and drives very well indeed. It may just have been the luck of the draw but the 275GTB 2 cam/non-torque tube car we had, was a nightmare of unreliability, whereas the ex-Ecurie Francorchamps 275GTB/C was impeccable and we sold it for quite a lot more than it was bought for. 

 

Wilson

[wlaidlaw]

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As John passed the photo posting on, here is the next one:

A D-B (Deutsch-Bonnet) HBR5 Sport? 

 

Wilson

[a.j.z]

Wilson, I have to admit that I never heard of the car that you suggest, so no. It is not really exotic (by the standards of this thread).

[a.j.z]

Don't get confused by the country sign and the colour

[pippy]

May I be the prat-faller who suggests the obvious - but incorrect - answer?

 

1955/56 Jaguar D-Type.

 

Pip.

Edited August 16, 2017 by pippy

[a.j.z]

Yes, it is as simple as that (this was the trick ;-))

 

Your turn Pip

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[wlaidlaw]

Andreas, 

 

Do you know which one that short nose D is? 

 

Wilson

[a.j.z]

I will try to find out.

 

Here is a video

[a.j.z]

The car finished 3rd place at the 24h in LeMans in 1957

[wlaidlaw]

Andreas,

 

We had XKD504. A long nose that was the factory experimental car with fuel injection (not very successful) and was sold in 1957 to Ecurie Ecosse. It was always a spare car at Le Mans and did not have a very spectacular record in period but did far better as a historic racer with people like Neil Corner. 

 

Wilson

[pippy]

Yes, it is as simple as that (this was the trick ;-))

 

Your turn Pip

Thank you, Andreas.

I do really like the looks of the D-Type in blue!

 

I will post something later today.

 

Pip.

[pippy]

OK...

Not much to go with (I'm on holiday) so just snapped a few bits of this beast today.

Probably far too easy for some folks here but so be it...

 

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Pip.

Edited August 17, 2017 by pippy

[pippy]

A tiny little bit more to go on?

 

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(From almost every other angle / detail the answer shrieks itself out at you...... ......)

 

Pip.

Edited August 17, 2017 by pippy

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[pippy]

Another couple of bits...

 

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Pip.

Edited August 19, 2017 by pippy

[Graham (G4FUJ)]

Trans-Am / Pontiac Firebird?  Not sure of year though...