Ivan Goriup Posted December 20, 2023 Share #21121 Posted December 20, 2023 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) Thank you, Philip. Think of this mystery car as sort of a Christmas present, since I believe the the car(s) is distinctive & famous enough that it probably wont take long at all to identify. As I've done in a few instances in the past, I have images of more than one of these cars, and I will be using a mix of clues here to offer clues. As is the case with many limited production cars, and given the essentially hand-made, bespoke nature of the cars, few were exactly alike, with various client-mandated custom details present on different specimens. Who will take a crack at this.......? JZG Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited December 20, 2023 by Ivan Goriup 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/119687-name-this-car/?do=findComment&comment=4951829'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 20, 2023 Posted December 20, 2023 Hi Ivan Goriup, Take a look here Name this car..... I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
stuny Posted December 20, 2023 Share #21122 Posted December 20, 2023 1950s, Italian with US drive train? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted December 20, 2023 Share #21123 Posted December 20, 2023 I'll take a back seat (pun) on this one as I know it very well. Not so much the car, I hasten to add, but my memories of the Corgi Die-Cast model of one which I had as a kid.....😸...... Philip. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Goriup Posted December 20, 2023 Share #21124 Posted December 20, 2023 As I said, much too easy.......... but I still need to hear a year and a name. Would either of you have guessed as quickly and as apparently accurately if I had posted the clue below first. JZG Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/119687-name-this-car/?do=findComment&comment=4952048'>More sharing options...
pippy Posted December 20, 2023 Share #21125 Posted December 20, 2023 (edited) Not in a million years! Crikey! At first I thought you were meaning the black car at the left of the above pic and I had to resort to google to see images of the drop-top version. In all honestly I can say I've never seen one of those in my life. Which vandal was responsible for attacking the design-board with the 'Ugly-Stick'??? Nice Gull-Wing, though...😸... Philip. Edited December 20, 2023 by pippy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Goriup Posted December 21, 2023 Share #21126 Posted December 21, 2023 I think it's been long enough since the last guess, and given the time of year with a lot oi folk's attention diverted by the holiday season I believe it's time for 'all to be revealed'. As Stuart suggested, it is a product of the 1950s, built partially in Italy and does contain a U.S. dive train. These cars were built by Dual-Ghia Corporation of Detroit, formed by entrepreneur Eugene Casaroll, who successfully arranged to purchase a series of rolling chassis of a 1954 Dodge styling excersize called the Firearrow, which was equipped with the then-new 315 cu. in, Hemi V-8 engine, but never reached production. The frame and running gear would be flown to Ghia's facilities in Italy, where the frame was slightly modified & strengthened, and the steel body and interior were installed and then flown back to Detroit for completion , creating what Brock Yates called the 'world's longest, most expensive assembly line'. To recover some of these extravagant expenses, Casaroll priced the cars a few hundred U.S.$ above the most expensive US cars at the time, and personally handpicked the clients to whom he would sell these things to preserve the illusion of exclusivity, such as Frank Sinatra, Dean Martin ( who owned the Black coupe with wire-wheels and the whitewall tires ) and shockingly ( to me at least ) one Richard M. Nixon. The first cropped image of the top of the black car is ( #21121 ) is of a 1957 Dual Ghia Coupe ( the Dean Martin car ). The second clue, the greenish Convertible with the small fins was ordered by singer Vic Damone and represents a rather more 'standard' version of the cars since the D. Martin coupe had less ostentatious, non-finned rear fenders. Dual - Ghia produced a total of 117 cars bearing their name from 1956 through 1958 and then quitely disappeared. It is estimated around 30+ units still exist. All images - M240-P / 35mm Summilux Asph. FLE, and/or SL / 24-90 V.E. JZG Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/119687-name-this-car/?do=findComment&comment=4954893'>More sharing options...
Ivan Goriup Posted December 21, 2023 Share #21127 Posted December 21, 2023 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) The other Dual - Ghia on the lawn that day was this green / gray 1957 DG-33 Convertible Dual Ghia. I know the car was never really identified by name, but I believe Stuart's discreet & quite correct description of it earns him the next turn. Merry Christmas to all & thanks for participating. JZG Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited December 21, 2023 by Ivan Goriup 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/119687-name-this-car/?do=findComment&comment=4954907'>More sharing options...
Ivan Goriup Posted December 21, 2023 Share #21128 Posted December 21, 2023 Please allow me to post an image of a third car which took part in the annual Monterey Car Week, participated in the 'Tour d'Elegance' on Thursday,but never showed up at the Concours on Sunday. JZG Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/119687-name-this-car/?do=findComment&comment=4954916'>More sharing options...
stuny Posted December 21, 2023 Share #21129 Posted December 21, 2023 Thank you, Ivan. One convertible belonged to another Rat Pack, member, actor Peter Lawford. You could see his Dual Ghia head-on in the opening credits of his humorous detective series, The Thin Man, based on the William Power Powell and Myrna Loy film series, launched in 1934, based on a Dashiell Hammett book. In the TV series, running from '57-59, Phillis Kirk played Nora Charles to Powell's Nick Charles. Both versions had their dog, Asta, a wire haired terrier. Both series were, in 1930s jargon, of a "Madcap" style. The "Dual" in Dual Ghia came from the manufacturer, Dual Motors, the firm Cassaroll ran. Some of the other owners Ivan did not mention were Eddie Fisher, Sammy Davis Jr, Debbie Reynolds, Hoagy Carmichael, Sterling Hayden, Ronald Regan & Lyndon Johnson. Let's try this one: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/119687-name-this-car/?do=findComment&comment=4954999'>More sharing options...
Ivan Goriup Posted December 21, 2023 Share #21130 Posted December 21, 2023 On 12/20/2023 at 10:37 AM, pippy said: Nice Gull-Wing, though...😸... Philip. Somewhat of a non-sequitur here, Philip, but with all respect, 'nice Gull-Wing' doesn't come anywhere near to describing the most perfect, truly magnificent, well-done, rare & exotic Mercedes-Benz 300SL I have ever seen. This masterpiece is a 1956 model, one of only 29 alloy-bodied 'Gullwing' Coupes, handbuilt in the M-B racing department in Untertürkheim, prior to being transported to the Sindelfingen factory to complete assembly. Among other features of this car is the high performance NSL 2996cc straight six engine ( higher output than the LeMans winning 300 SL ) which only 4% of all Gullwings were equipped with. This is also the only Gullwing originally supplied with the combination of Elephant Ivory paint, Red Tartan Gabardine seat upholstery and Cream trim. One of relatively few Gullwings that was ordered and delivered with the rare Rudge knock-off wheels, since many more than were originally equipped with those are being shown and claimed to be original these days. After the original purchaser, David Piper was later an owner of this car. I damned near cried when I saw this car and chatted with the owner, a very pleasant English gentleman, who had the car restored in England but declined to reveal which shops did the work.....and better work I've never seen. Not a trace of the currently so popular methods of over-restoration, everything looked original, no substitutions, better than any 'tool-room continuations' so much in vogue nowadays.....simply perfect. I have lusted after a 'Competition Gullwing' for decades, came close a couple of times, but never was able to put a deal together to top off my car collecting hobby with the one jewel I've always wanted so very much. All the Best JZG Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 3 2 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/119687-name-this-car/?do=findComment&comment=4955018'>More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted December 21, 2023 Share #21131 Posted December 21, 2023 On 12/20/2023 at 1:24 PM, Ivan Goriup said: Thank you, Philip. Think of this mystery car as sort of a Christmas present, since I believe the the car(s) is distinctive & famous enough that it probably wont take long at all to identify. As I've done in a few instances in the past, I have images of more than one of these cars, and I will be using a mix of clues here to offer clues. As is the case with many limited production cars, and given the essentially hand-made, bespoke nature of the cars, few were exactly alike, with various client-mandated custom details present on different specimens. Who will take a crack at this.......? JZG Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Worth noting how Ghia (TJiarda) touch is the same in the Fiat 2300 S ... a car I sat into many times at 6-8 years... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted December 21, 2023 Share #21132 Posted December 21, 2023 1 hour ago, Ivan Goriup said: I think it's been long enough since the last guess, and given the time of year with a lot oi folk's attention diverted by the holiday season I believe it's time for 'all to be revealed'. As Stuart suggested, it is a product of the 1950s, built partially in Italy and does contain a U.S. dive train. These cars were built by Dual-Ghia Corporation of Detroit, formed by entrepreneur Eugene Casaroll, who successfully arranged to purchase a series of rolling chassis of a 1954 Dodge styling excersize called the Firearrow, which was equipped with the then-new 315 cu. in, Hemi V-8 engine, but never reached production. The frame and running gear would be flown to Ghia's facilities in Italy, where the frame was slightly modified & strengthened, and the steel body and interior were installed and then flown back to Detroit for completion , creating what Brock Yates called the 'world's longest, most expensive assembly line'. To recover some of these extravagant expenses, Casaroll priced the cars a few hundred U.S.$ above the most expensive US cars at the time, and personally handpicked the clients to whom he would sell these things to preserve the illusion of exclusivity, such as Frank Sinatra, Dean Martin ( who owned the Black coupe with wire-wheels and the whitewall tires ) and shockingly ( to me at least ) one Richard M. Nixon. The first cropped image of the top of the black car is ( #21121 ) is of a 1957 Dual Ghia Coupe ( the Dean Martin car ). The second clue, the greenish Convertible with the small fins was ordered by singer Vic Damone and represents a rather more 'standard' version of the cars since the D. Martin coupe had less ostentatious, non-finned rear fenders. Dual - Ghia produced a total of 117 cars bearing their name from 1956 through 1958 and then quitely disappeared. It is estimated around 30+ units still exist. All images - M240-P / 35mm Summilux Asph. FLE, and/or SL / 24-90 V.E. JZG Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! There’s something rather lovely about these cars. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted December 21, 2023 Share #21133 Posted December 21, 2023 Oddly the later 300SL convertible is a nicer car to drive than the more spectacular looking Gullwing. Mercedes made many improvements between 1955 when the Gullwing came out and 1957 when the convertible appeared. The Gullwing was not really updated during its lifetime whereas the Convertible received another update in 1960 with disc brakes, power steering (badly needed) and better compensation for the rear swing axles. Unless the finned drum brakes of a Gullwing are very regularly serviced and adjusted, they tend to be rather grabby until they get thoroughly warmed up. Wilson 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuny Posted December 22, 2023 Share #21134 Posted December 22, 2023 Back to the current mystery car, here's a partial quote in an article about it: "...one of the few post World War I companies who marketed a vehicle for sporting purposes even though not involved in racing." Here's a slightly more generous crop: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/119687-name-this-car/?do=findComment&comment=4955787'>More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted December 22, 2023 Share #21135 Posted December 22, 2023 Stuart, In the Simeone Collection I believe. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuny Posted December 22, 2023 Share #21136 Posted December 22, 2023 1 hour ago, wlaidlaw said: Stuart, In the Simeone Collection I believe. Wilson Yes. I can't recall if you've been there. If not, I encourage you to plan visiting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuny Posted December 23, 2023 Share #21137 Posted December 23, 2023 Still nothing? Let's see if the complete car (with the info board information cloned out) will get us any further. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/119687-name-this-car/?do=findComment&comment=4958281'>More sharing options...
stuny Posted December 24, 2023 Share #21138 Posted December 24, 2023 Still nothing? We know it's from post WWI, and in the Simeone collection, which just has "sporting cars." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted December 24, 2023 Share #21139 Posted December 24, 2023 I for one, Stuart, have absolutely no idea. Sorry. Philip. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuny Posted December 26, 2023 Share #21140 Posted December 26, 2023 A few more bits of information before calling off this chase: The company was founded in Michigan in 1906 and acquired by General Motors in 1909, but is no longer in existence, and hasn't been for quite some time. It has a 4 cylinder monoblock engine and 3-speed transmission. It's rear suspension is underslung. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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