M9 - coincidence at infinity

[FlashGordonPhotography]

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I've done infinity and vertical on my M240. The 12 week round trip from Oz was too much for me. Total time was about 5 minutes each and they've been spot on ever since.

 

I have not adjusted the length of the arm on my 240 and would send that one off personally. It looks more secured than the M9, to me.

 

Gordon

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[JHAG]

Brett - - you have to place that manually and stop up and down in your testing but knowing how good your eye is you'd have no trouble making sure you were setting it in the right place. Then again I should imagine you have your own personal team of gnomes from Solms following you around with a shiny Leica support van, re-setting your bodies like a tennis pro has rackets tensioned ? No?

 

 

 

I know this is not for everyone and that's not what I'm saying - my aim in posting is to share the work I have done and the successes I have had with my own adjustments.

 

It is very nice to know how to tweak one's own camera very quickly if necessary. It is nice to remove the 'aura' from the rangefinder mechanism in one's own mind and kind of feel at one with it. That's all.

 

 

So

 

Jamie - this is the explanation I posted a little while back along with a couple of pics for you to look at. As adil says you need to take a sample of shots from every lens (and body if possible) you have to make sure you're calibrating it right.

 

You will need a 2.5mm allen key and a small screwdriver which you should grind a very slight angle on so that as you fit the screwdriver into the head on the focus throw pivot (A) on the diagram it allows a nice flat drive.

 

A) is the focus throw adjustment. If you look at the pic you can see that the screw retains an eccentric cam. If you loosen the screw you can rotate the cam (as denoted by the pink and blue arrows) freely. As you do so, the length of the arm itself changes.

 

By moving the cam counter-clockwise (as in pink arrow) you INCREASE the total available focus throw.

 

By moving the cam clockwise (as in blue arrow) you DECREASE the total available focus throw.

 

is the infinity adjustment as we know.

 

If you rotate the 2.5mm hex key counter clockwise (as in green arrow) you move the point at which the rangefinder 'sees' infinity further away - and this 'references everything forward of that.

 

If you rotate the 2.5mm hex key clockwise (as in yellow arrow) you move the point at which the rangefinder 'sees' infinity closer to you - and this 'references everything forward of that.

 

Right - so they are the two adjustments you have available to you. From my playing about the best way to set it up is this.

 

1) Infinity is very important. Step 1 is to look at something with lots of contrast a long way off (a star does seem to work very well but today I've been using a clock tower in the far distance and that's fine too) and then adjust the roller ( so that this perfectly coincides. Don't accept the nonesense I was spouting before about it not mattering. It really matters that you can 100% converge the object at infinity.

 

2) Now, take a photo at a big aperture of something close to you - like 0.8 meters or similar. I found text to be excellent. Note whether you now have front focus or back focus. If you have front focus (like I did - big time!) then your focus throw is too short; ie your arm is too long, so when the lens rotates you're not pushing the rangefinder enough. So you need to shorten the arm by loosening (A) and twisting the cam slightly anti-clockwise. (If you have backfocus then it's obviously the inverse and you need to go clockwise to lengthen the arm and reduce your focus throw).

 

3) Now, recheck infinity. It will now be wrong, because you have now moved the arm and so the roller wheel has also moved. But this is not a problem - just recorrect infinity as in 1) above to compensate for the altered focus throw.

 

4) Repeat step 2. You will see that the focus point has altered. Whether it has moved too little or too much will calibrate your hand/eye as to how much you need to make the adjustments but in general I made positive, but not excessive tweaks each time.

 

5) When you are happy with the infinity and close settings you want to shoot some images off that are at various distances just to make sure that everything is right. On my setup which consists of all current model lenses (not sure if this is relevent) I did not have to compensate with any kind of compromise here. When my infinity setting is right and the focus throw is perfect the transgression from near to far is linear and my lenses are sharp right the way through the range. I suppose that if this were not the case or if your lenses varied then you'd need to get them recalibrated, or maybe accept a compromise setting.

 

Hope that's helpful.

 

Have fun

 

What I don't understand is :

1. How do you loosen the A screw, which is very tightly fit (and has a cruciform shape on M240) without damaging it ? A plain screwdriver won't do : there is no clearance to catch the screw on the M240.

2. What is the "arm" you need to adjust : the part linking the screw to the roller or the seemingly twisted piece uprear on your picture ?

I don't mind sending it in to Wetzlar, I'm less at ease with sending the camera + 8 lenses.

[JHAG]

I've done infinity and vertical on my M240. The 12 week round trip from Oz was too much for me. Total time was about 5 minutes each and they've been spot on ever since.

 

I have not adjusted the length of the arm on my 240 and would send that one off personally. It looks more secured than the M9, to me.

 

Gordon

 

On mine, infinity is spot on but I don't care as I never shoot infinity. What I need is sharpness close-up (like Jamie's first post pics). If you adjust infinity and vertical, you don't have sharpness up close.

[thighslapper]

What I don't understand is :

1. How do you loosen the A screw, which is very tightly fit (and has a cruciform shape on M240) without damaging it ? A plain screwdriver won't do : there is no clearance to catch the screw on the M240.

2. What is the "arm" you need to adjust : the part linking the screw to the roller or the seemingly twisted piece uprear on your picture ?

I don't mind sending it in to Wetzlar, I'm less at ease with sending the camera + 8 lenses.

 

If you read the rest of the thread above you will see you need a screwdriver that is a very good fit that is slightly bevelled so when you use it at an angle in the camera body it sits flush with the screw head. This takes a few minutes with a file ....... The screw as you say now has a X head which makes it even easier ...... before if the slot was in the wrong orientation it was hard to get enough purchase with a screwdriver. This seems to have appeared quite recently.

 

The screw has some sort of sealant painted on to stop it moving ..... I loosened it with Butanol, but I suspect most other solvents would work. I just used more solvent when done and it sealed again. No need to remove or re-paint.

 

The screw is TIGHT and you need to get everything stable and well aligned before you exert enough torque to loosen it. Once you have done it and realise just how much force to use it will be much easier.

 

Under the screw is an eccentric cam that rotates and has a bent up portion with a slot in it ..... this is so you can put a screwdriver blade or similar in it and gently nudge it clockwise or anticlockwise. One way effectively lengthens the arm with the roller on, and the other way shortens it. You only need very slight movements to move the near point focus a centimetre or two in either direction.

 

As Julian says, the process is one of gradual adjustment to near and far till both are correct. Once you get the hang of it you will realise that 'over-correction' will avoid some of this see-sawing and shorten the process.

 

All this is quite hard to describe .... but once you have done it the process suddenly becomes logical and easy .... albeit rather repetitive and fiddly.

 

Juian has covered virtually everything .... it is all there if you read methodically through the whole thread.

[thighslapper]

This is what I use ....... better to have quite a large screwdriver and then file it down .... you cannot get enough grip on a small one to move the screw easily .....

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[rapids41]

Brilliant, but I wouldn't dare to do it on my M240.

 

Why not? It's the same at the M240 than at the M8/M9.

[JHAG]

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Why not? It's the same at the M240 than at the M8/M9.

 

Because it's new and messing with the screw and the arm will certainly void warranty.

Having not the proper tools means certainly some damage — at least cosmetic.

[goorackerelite]

Thank you so much for this information Julian! I can't tell you how much I appreciate your insight and for empowering me to do the adjustments myself. It was nerve wracking, but in general very logical and easy to follow. I hope other considering this do the same. It saved me around $200 bucks, and time without a camera. Plus now on my travels, I'll always have a screwdriver and a hex wrench for adjustments. Just take it slowly, make sure to never tighten anything beyond what's comfortable and make sure nothing is/becomes floppy in the process.

[jaapv]

Because it's new and messing with the screw and the arm will certainly void warranty.

Having not the proper tools means certainly some damage — at least cosmetic.

I've never heard of rangefinder adjustment either by a third party or the owner voiding guaranty since 1954. Highly unlikely at the very least.

[emre1969]

Hi,

 

I am using M9 since last 5 years. When I originally bought M9 , 35 summicron, 50 summilux lenses was not dead spot on, as I can understand now they have infinity focus issue but kind of acceptable. Afterwards I bought 90 mm summarit and focus was extremely bad.

 

I brought my camera and lenses to Solms, they tried their best but as I can understand now they also tune lenses at their tolerance levels in a way that all of them kind of acceptable but none of them spot on....

 

Corrosion occurred at the sensor and sent my camera to repair. When I got it back I noticed that my 50 and 90 mm lenses are deadly sharp (as I had never seen it before) while 35 mm has issues.

 

I believe my problem was previous tweaking of 35 mm at Solms.

 

As unfortunately it is not easy for me to travel Solms every now and then and sending camera and receiving back to Turkey is not a very easy process I wonder whether there is a solution to tune the 35 mm summicron by myself.

 

 

[jaapv]

Basically you only have to send in your Summicron 35.

It is not really possible to adjust a lens yourself, as you would need a collection of shims and ideally an optical bench.

Having said that, there are a few members here who do adjust their own lenses.

[alex7075]

Can some please help me with the midrange calibration?

I adjust the roller and the length of the arm.

At 0.7m-1.5m focus is spot on, altough at >5m,

but between I have frontfocus.

I checked booth lenses on my M9 where all is ok,

so I dont think that I have a problem with my lenses.

Any suggestions?

 

First of all, thanks to all those who helped understanding how this complex mechanism works.

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Having followed Julian's drawings, I am in a similar situation as rapids41: infinity OK, 1 meter OK, in-between backfocus.

 

My suspicion is that if you increase the focus throw and turn the cam let's say CCW to fix infinity and 1 meter, well you could obtain the same result by doing the opposite, i.e. decrease the focus throw and turning the cam CW; the difference would be in the middle distances.

So, the two different combinations would be equivalent for infinity and 1 meter, but affect middle distances.

Does it make sense?

Oh, the lens is a Noctilux f/1.0 and it works perfectly on my second M camera.

[rapids41]

Having followed Julian's drawings, I am in a similar situation as rapids41: infinity OK, 1 meter OK, in-between backfocus.

 

WOW! Finally somebody has the same problem, thought that I am the only one.

To tell you the end of the Story (sorry for my bad english):

 

I decided to sell the Monochrom, but before that I sent it to Leica Germany with detailed description of the error.

After 2 weeks they claimed they had done a rangefinder adjustment, but when it came back the camera still had the same error.

During this I found a buyer for my Monochrom and told him that I have a problem with the rangefinder and I had to sent it to Leica Germany again.

The buyer told me that he lifes 10 km away from Leica Germany and he have no Problem to bring the camera to them personally, because he had a good relationship to them.

By the way the camera was 3 months old and had <1000 clicks.

Unfortunately I have never heard that the problem was fixed, but I believe Leica finally fixed it.

 

Until now I owned two M8s, 2 M9s two M240 and a Mono again, but I have never had that problem again which I had with my first Mono.

I also asked here in the forum how I can adjust the middle distance, but nobody knows, but I am still very interested in this.

Maybe its only adjustable when removing the topplate.

Edited October 2, 2015 by rapids41

[alex7075]

This page explains what I mean quite clearly: http://www.jumboprawn.net/jesse/cams/gear-profiles/leica-m2-overhaul/leica-m2-overhaul.html

 

 

The Leica rangefinder has two adjustments for distance, shown in this photo.

 

First, the infinity point adjustment is done with the largest screw, at the shaft of the roller that rides against the lens. Turning this screw adjusts the offset of the full range of distances.

 

The second distance adjustment is the gain. You won't generally make the gain adjustment (except that it will be disturbed duing this disassembly procedure). The gain of the distance function is the relative difference between any two distance settings. The gain is controlled with the ring around the pivot shaft screw (far right in this photo). Turning this ring clockwise extends the roller arm out from the shaft, resulting in less visual movement of the rangefinder patch per lens movement. Turning this ring CCW retracts the roller arm in toward the shaft, resulting in more visual movement of the rangefinder patch. In the end, you adjust the rangefinder at two points: Infinity and 1 meter.

 

[alex7075]

Final report: it takes time (three hours), but it works.

I started with a Noctilux back-focusing only at middle distances and other lenses front-focusing. By tweaking the gain adjustment (and a little the infinite cam) all of them are now spot on at all distances.

So thanks to all of you, this thread saved my gear a third trip to Wetzlar after two unsuccessful ones and many weeks away!

[rapids41]

Can you please explain how you have done it?

If near distance is spot on and infinity also, how do you start to correct middle distance?

[alex7075]

Basically by tweaking the gain adjustment, which affects middle and near distances more than infinity (as Julian and others explained). 

Combined tweaking of the two adjustments, with a lot of trial and error, brings to a good result.

Don't ask me how it can be that near distance and infinity are ok while middle distances are off, it sounded very strange to me, but it was like that!

[rapids41]

Yes the gain affects middle distance more than infinity, and yes I have fixed middle distance also with the gain, but than my 0.7m-2m was total off.

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[alex7075]

In this case, I would consider that the gain has been turned too much, so I would turn it back a little (less than required to fix the 1 meter), correct the main cam to reach coincidence at 1 meter, and continue fine tuning this way. In my experience, this helped fixing on my Noctilux all distances, even far ones. The real infinity was slightly off, but that's infinity and once you turn the focusing ring to the end, that's ok.

[Erik Gunst Lund]

...... The real infinity was slightly off, but that's infinity and once you turn the focusing ring to the end, that's ok.

 

Sorry; Considering the whole thread is about 'Coincidence at infinity' your statement is completely misplaced IMHO.

 

I know you'r probably trying to be helpfull but... the whole point is that you can adjust the rangefinder to work at all distances and have,,, 'Coincidence at infinity'

 

Here is why and how:

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/118043-m9-coincidence-at-infinity/?p=1292454

Edited October 6, 2015 by Erik Gunst Lund