A Sane Attitude to Rededge

[ho_co]

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It was used by LFI, that is reason I ask....

 

"They said it" doesn't mean much without citation.

 

Can you state page number and passage?

[wlaidlaw]

I think my personal disappointment is the lack of response from Leica on the continuing red edge problem after the FW update. Stefan Daniel used to post on this forum to keep us informed when we had a legitimate beef and Leica was working on a solution. An informed customer is a happy customer. I have now sent two emails to Leica in Solms on my continuing red edge/asymmetric vignetting issues with the WATE on my M9, without any reply. If Leica told us that they were aware that there was a continuing red edge problem on certain lenses, listed them and said they were working on an FW solution, I for one would be much more relaxed. I use my WATE a lot and I don't want to keep having to correct vignetting and colour errors, when I just should not have to.

 

Wilson

[Guest roey]

Not in the original German version of the article.

 

In the English version you'll find on page 21:

 

"One of the biggest questions, however, was how to ensure a happy marriage between the 35mm lens and the camera's large sensor where peripheral aberrations, such as astigmatism, coma, colour and barrel distortion, pose serious threats."

 

In this context, it looks like it refers to normal spherical aberrations.

[sandymc]

Wison,

 

I doubt that Leica will be able to come up with a solution that's very much better than now. There's just too much variability across cameras and lenses, and I doubt that a camera/lens specific solution is viable for Leica to implement in firmware. You'd essentially have to implement CornerFix in firmware, and even if that were viable, you'd have to distribute acetate diffusers or something along with the camera to get reasonable reference images.

 

Regards,

 

Sandy

[lct]

Doesn't Cornerfix work with the Wate?

[jaapv]

In the English version you'll find on page 21:

 

"One of the biggest questions, however, was how to ensure a happy marriage between the 35mm lens and the camera's large sensor where peripheral aberrations, such as astigmatism, coma, colour and barrel distortion, pose serious threats."

 

In this context, it looks like it refers to normal spherical aberrations.

They mean CA, I suppose. The translations in LFI can be so umm.. imaginative as to make the articles incomprehensible from time to time.

[sandymc]

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Doesn't Cornerfix work with the Wate?

 

Yes, CornerFix does. The problem would be building CornerFix into the M9.

 

Sandy

[pgk]

In LFI magazine (2/2010) there is article about 35mm lens for "S" system. They point as a success - no color distortion on big sensor.

That once again tells me they are and were aware of the color issues - as a distortion in general. Including M9. Would it mean - they treat "S" more seriously?

A completely fresh design can tackle and deal with all issues which a design incorporating 'legacy' problems (ie the necessity to use older, pre-digital, design lenses AND lenses used for varying digital formats) and which must operate with existing equipment may be unable to fully resolve.

 

I'm still undecided on an M9 (not because of the red edge problem but because my M8 still fulfills my requirements) but what this thread does say to me is that if I want to ensure that I obtain the very best results then probably the latest lenses should also be factored in.

 

Personally (although costly) I see no real conflict in this just as see no conflict in potentially changing both my Canon 100 macro for the new L design version or my 24/1.4L for the MkII version - both existing lenses are compromised to some extent by the 5D2 sensor capabilities.

[jaapv]

Yes, CornerFix does. The problem would be building CornerFix into the M9.

 

Sandy

But Leica could offer it as bundled software.

[UliWer]

@ pgk:

I do not see that the problem dealt with in this thread - i.e. red edges on pictures taken with wide angle lenses - has anything to do with the age of the lens design. Leica's latest lens is the 3.8/18 Super-Elmar, which shows the effect very badly - even with the M8.

[pgk]

UliWer

 

You are perfectly right - it isn't on my list of potential wants even with an M9 so I'd ignored it! It would be very interesting to know which lenses have been designed with a FF digital sensor in mind though, and of course with the hindsight of appreciating all the potential problems which a FF sensor would pose.

[UliWer]

All Leica-M lenses were designed for the 35mm (24x36 mm) frame.

[sandymc]

But Leica could offer it as bundled software.

 

Jaap,

 

Yes, they could, but each customer would still have to generate their own reference image to get around the variability problem. That's where the problem will be - the people on this forum are probably the most technically sophisticated group of Leica users you'll find, but getting a good reference image still gives most people a headache. I wouldn't want to manning the Leica helpdesk at that point.

 

Regards,

 

Sandy

[jaapv]

So if it cannot be solved in-camera the challenge is to get rid of variability, and then they could supply profile-presets.

[sandymc]

So if it cannot be solved in-camera the challenge is to get rid of variability, and then they could supply profile-presets.

 

Yes. Problem is, I think the variability is inherent in the sensor design, at least in the sense that the sensor responds differently to different lenses.

 

Regards,

 

Sandy

[Jerry_R]

So if it cannot be solved in-camera the challenge is to get rid of variability, and then they could supply profile-presets.

They could deliver few, maybe tens (if we would talk about more wide angle lenses) - LR profiles.

(single one lens requires few LR profiles, to be applied depending on white balance of a photo. I need to apply different LR profile, created by me - to photos on snow and different to inside photos)

[AlanG]

Jaap,

 

Yes, they could, but each customer would still have to generate their own reference image to get around the variability problem. That's where the problem will be - the people on this forum are probably the most technically sophisticated group of Leica users you'll find, but getting a good reference image still gives most people a headache. I wouldn't want to manning the Leica helpdesk at that point.

 

Regards,

 

Sandy

 

You need to find out what is actually going on before a solution can be developed. (Are there variables in cameras, lenses, techniques.)

 

The first step is designing a simple consistent methodology for users to test for the red shift. (e.g. Plexiglass diffuser, tungsten light source, Lightroom settings, expose for a specific brightness value on the raw file at the center, white balance on the center.)

 

Once this information has been accumulated, you'll have something to go on.

[MaxFoto]

1 month ago I re-entered after many years with Canon equipment Leica agin with M9 and 35 lux as well as 75 cron. Many years ago I started my photographic career with Leicas (M6, R7,...) No discussion about sharpness and bukeh of the M9 pics so far - I like it very much. But I am deeply disappointed by the red edge problem and I have no hope that any FW will solve this problem.

Its really funny: With the japanese C equipment I got stuck with never ending discussions about AF problems in the forums and now with M9 its all about red edges.

BTW could any filter help out of this desaster?

 

KR, Wolflgang

[UliWer]

... with M9 and 35 lux as well as 75 cron. ...

 

With your lenses you should not have problems with those red edges: certainly not with the 75cron and perhaps with the exception of rare cases (snow with underexposed edges) usually not with the 35 lux. So enjoy your equipment.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[MaxFoto]

with 35lux there are red corners - no question about. would you like to recommend not to use in winter time? there is lot of upsides with M9 and the superbe lenses, but this is a major downside.