wlaidlaw Posted March 16, 2010 Share #221 Posted March 16, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) Jerry, The red edges seem to generally be the exception with the WATE, and even in the worst examples I have seen posted, they are nowhere near as bad as the CV15. I would suggest trying one out on your M9 to see what you think. My bet is that you don't find any red edge issues. Jeff Jeff, Print pretty much any WATE/M9 shot to A3 or bigger, unless the left edge and top right corner is in darkenss and you will be reaching for Sandy's CornerFix. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 16, 2010 Posted March 16, 2010 Hi wlaidlaw, Take a look here M9 FW v1.116 available.... I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
swamiji Posted March 16, 2010 Share #222 Posted March 16, 2010 Jeff, Print pretty much any WATE/M9 shot to A3 or bigger, unless the left edge and top right corner is in darkenss and you will be reaching for Sandy's CornerFix. Wilson I must be one of the few with out the problem. WATE + M9 + A3+ = Great, no vignetting nor redness on edge/corner. I tried it again last night with the new FW, I could not get it to occur. You know how boring it is to shoot a white wall... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonM Posted March 16, 2010 Share #223 Posted March 16, 2010 Here are my observations (these are not suggestions but actual observations). • When the switch is set to off and it gets pushed down, the red LED in the back lights up on my M9. BTW, the battery in my camera holds the charge pretty well. Even after sitting switched off over night there is no degradation in the battery charge. I have set both "Auto review" and "Auto power off" to "OFF" and have made it a habit to keep the on/off switch set to off unless I want to take a picture. Auto power 1 min, auto review = off. Old and new SW, no red light when shutter depressed from a long resting state (just took it out of my checked luggage) OR when recently turned off. I've lost no charge in 4 weeks of inactivity. I was at 75% in very early February and I'm at 75% now after doing the SW upgrade and no use in between. And I have a relatively early camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry_R Posted March 16, 2010 Share #224 Posted March 16, 2010 Not easy... One WATE, few users, two opinions... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alnitak Posted March 17, 2010 Share #225 Posted March 17, 2010 I must be one of the few with out the problem. WATE + M9 + A3+ = Great, no vignetting nor redness on edge/corner. I tried it again last night with the new FW, I could not get it to occur. You know how boring it is to shoot a white wall... Actually, I think Wilson is one of the few WITH the problem. I simply can't find a problem with my WATE, and I am only aware of 2-3 total people reporting problems with the WATE and red edges. Given that Leica has listed a bunch of lenses as improved, but not the WATE, tells me that Leica also didn't get a lot of complaints with the WATE. All of the lenses that Leica has listed in the firmware update are ones that seem to be a problem for almost everyone. I still believe that this problem is a combination of a number of factors, including sensor alignment, lens decentering (even very slight), light temperature, and algorithms. The algorithms for correction are no doubt built around an ideal model for the lens and light temperature. Any variation from the model can be minor, but in combination, it can result in red edges. This is essentially the position Sandy takes, which is why he feels that Leica won't be able to correct all cases with the firmware, a view he expressed before the release, and a view that seems to be borne out. As an example, the only Leica lens I have ever had problems with is the 21mm f/2.8 Elmarit-M ASPH. After the firmware update, the red edge issue appears to have been greatly reduced in fluorescent light and sunlight, but is still quite visible in tungsten. An improvement, yes, but a case where the light temperature still has an effect. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry_R Posted March 17, 2010 Share #226 Posted March 17, 2010 OK, I am after few hours of dealing with red corners of my CV 15mm. I can only confirm what Jeff wrote. I am sure, without separate profiles for different lighting - LEICA WILL NOT correct it in any firmware with current sensor. It can only minimize it, and it can not deliver correction that fits all light conditions. In one preset, program, however we call it. Let me share with you few observations. I am not fully happy with CornerFix. It does its job, best as can for all kinds of light. I mean both inside and outside are quite acceptable, but not all perfect. It blows out my sky, it increases noise too much on inside photos. Maybe I should make few different profiles, had no time to check this. But in fact rather won't do - see below. After spending few hours with LR - that I know quite well and use since many months (but never worked seriously on red corners) - I am MUCH MORE happy with LR results, than Corner Fix. I can treat every photo to perfect results. But - what is most important - NOT WITH ONE SETTING for the lens! I must have separate preset for inside, separate for outside light conditions. Mechanism is exactly the same - as coding that lens with 28mm f/2. Then it is almost perfect inside, but bad outside. The same situation with LR. One preset won't serve for all photos. Any changes in LR are done in non destructive mode. In one photo I want small vignette, on another none. LR alligns to that quickly and easily, giving me always minimum amount of noise. When I batch process DNGs with Corner Fix - they are cooked. Saved as separate DNG files, with bigger size, with already brightened corners - with noise added. And all treated with one profile. If anyone can share more light on how to use Corner Fix more effectively than I do - welcome. In coming days I will work on LR presets, than I can share them with you - for your own further customization. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom in mpls Posted March 17, 2010 Share #227 Posted March 17, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) OK,I am after few hours of dealing with red corners of my CV 15mm. I can only confirm what Jeff wrote. I am sure, without separate profiles for different lighting - LEICA WILL NOT correct it in any firmware with current sensor. As much as we might want it, I would not expect Leica to create specific correction for any non-Leica lens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted March 17, 2010 Share #228 Posted March 17, 2010 CV 15mm examples, uncoded and coded as 28mm f/2, new firmware. Yesterday I was quite enthusiastic when saw results inside an apartment. Today morning I took few shots outside. Left and bottom part becomes better (but still shift is visible), but top and right part becomes worse...Blue sky is gone. And even like new shift would appear... Have a look. I think still Corner Fix is a solution. These are RAWs just opened in LR and exported as JPGs. No vignetting applied. I planned to buy WATE, but if I would still have to use Corner Fix for such money, I will wait. Tomorrow I will get 24mm f/3.8, so can test it too. Why the obsession with the CV15? You don't really think Leica will correct for this lens? Big difference in construction between a $350 Cosina and a $5K Leica WATE. And why code as a 28 Cron??!! It's a 15mm.... You are very confusing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Thompson Posted March 17, 2010 Share #229 Posted March 17, 2010 I am a wide angle novice, so my post here is more of a question than anything else; with these extreme wide angles I presume that the vignetting is a question of lens performance at those exposure levels? So for example in the toppermost of the 3 shots above the exposure would seem to me to be set off the middle of the clouds, just allowing the one area of cloud to blow out but underexposing the subject pretty convincingly. What happens to the purple corners with more exposure? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted March 17, 2010 Share #230 Posted March 17, 2010 As much as we might want it, I would not expect Leica to create specific correction for any non-Leica lens. Why should they? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted March 17, 2010 Share #231 Posted March 17, 2010 ...What happens to the purple corners with more exposure? The effect of the red shift will be reduced by good exposure with enough light and stengthened by underexposure in the edges. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest trond Posted March 17, 2010 Share #232 Posted March 17, 2010 Actually, I think Wilson is one of the few WITH the problem. I simply can't find a problem with my WATE, and I am only aware of 2-3 total people reporting problems with the WATE and red edges. Jeff The WATE is a quite difficult lens to understand with respect to the red edges. I only see the problem in strong sunlit snow scenes, when the sun is behind me, on my left side. Shooting a white wall, or a snow scene in overcast weather, does not give the problem. I am a bit puzzled by this, and would like to know why the problem only appears in strong directional/contrasty light. Best regards Trond PS: The effect is not very pronounced, but clearly visible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest trond Posted March 17, 2010 Share #233 Posted March 17, 2010 By the way, I have not been able to verify if there is any change with the new firmware. Trond Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted March 17, 2010 Share #234 Posted March 17, 2010 Why should they? Well, of course there is no justification for a demand of specific correction for every non-Leica lens. Though the "red shift" is no result of bad and cheap glass but of an irregularity of in-camera processing. Exspectation was high that the firmware would solve it completely - at least for Leica lenses. As far as I could see in this forum, it is not solved for several Leica lenses. So the cameras are not up to the standard - and there is no sign of an improvement for the M8 where the problem persists, even if everybody is only talking about it in connection with the M9 And I have to admit that reading the notes for the firmware about this topic they give me the impression of a layman's approach. This may be wrong, but the image is there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted March 17, 2010 Share #235 Posted March 17, 2010 In relation to the M8 it's interesting that there wasn't much discussion about this red shift until the M9 came along. At least, not that I'd noticed on this forum. Maybe I missed it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest trond Posted March 17, 2010 Share #236 Posted March 17, 2010 Dear Andy, On the M8 the red edge would be outside the frame area, so the red edges would not be visible. At least not in the case of the WATE. Best regards Trond Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
batmobile Posted March 17, 2010 Share #237 Posted March 17, 2010 Why should they? No specific reason, but I think doing so would improve the desirability and performance of the platform they are selling. Encouraging a certain amount of cross-compatibility would please a lot of users and therefore surely pay dividends... esp as they are not competing in this FL really. The real price of a M9 comes down considerably for a CV/Zeiss user who can use all their lenses on the M9 and not have to buy new Leica glass. Due to the price of Leica lenses I suspect this would be more beneficial for Leica than any negative impact on lenses sold, which I suspect would be negligible. Leica M9 + 3 CV lenses = 8K Leica M9 + 3 Leica lens = $16K (using a $3K average) Getting their platform out there, used by as many as possible, would surely be the main goal. In time many will buy Leica lenses when they have more money or see what they regard as the benefits. I'm no economist but it seems to make sense to me. Allowing manual selection of lenses was a real boon and perhaps recognition of this in a small way. Leica has really pulled off a real coup with the M9 and I hope it keeps rolling! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted March 17, 2010 Share #238 Posted March 17, 2010 In relation to the M8 it's interesting that there wasn't much discussion about this red shift until the M9 came along. At least, not that I'd noticed on this forum. Maybe I missed it. You are absolutely right. Not discussing something or even not noticing it does not mean it is not there. Though sometimes there is a point when something is noticed and you cannot go back behind this point. Before 1492 nobody in Europe did talk of America, they didn't even notice it. There were even very clever people who thought they found a way to western India. (When I have more time I shall search for some photos posted in this forum long before the M9 was introduced and we can look if the red shift was there or not). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted March 17, 2010 Share #239 Posted March 17, 2010 If anyone can share more light on how to use Corner Fix more effectively than I do - welcome. In coming days I will work on LR presets, than I can share them with you - for your own further customization. Jerry - I would be interested in seeing the results of any work you're able to do on LR presets. Very happy to test for you with Leica Elmarit 21 pre-asph / Zeiss 18mm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted March 17, 2010 Share #240 Posted March 17, 2010 I have sent a copy of my "interesting" white wall with pink borders to Leica Support. I am guessing I will get the usual response - send in your M9 and lens for checking. If they feel it is really necessary, I will either get them to arrange a pick up or send via my local (and very good) dealers, H A Baker. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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