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Is the new M8 firmware just around the corner?

jaay

By jaay
in Leica M8 / Leica M8.2

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Had a walk.

Sorry if I sounded upset or even unfriendly.

Shouldn't afford this ever for longer than a very few minutes, then forget and also make it forgotten through subsequent behaviour.

 

I just think, that the guys (and girls :) ) who gave LEICA the last turn-around could have deserved a little note yesterday, as to: M8 update in progress and pending (oh Leica! :D:D !) in the second quarter / at the fotokina

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Jamie Roberts

Jamie Roberts

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Peter, don't be so sure... Leica may have taken a lesson from Canon here... just look at the professional series 1D/1Ds cameras. They are on their forth revision right night (aka Mark IV). And even though these are professional grade and expensive cameras (with the 1Ds similar in price to the M8/9 bodies), Canon was under no obligation to the 'professionals' once the new version came out to back-date the older ones. Nor did they do any of that.

 

{snipped}

 

Hey Tom,

 

With all due respect, as a CPS member, I have to say that Canon isn't quite as cavalier as your note makes them out to be. And you're wrong about them not supporting their products past a new announce, and about Canon not developing compatible products for older models.

 

While it's true the Canon 1 has gone through many revisions, the 1ds, for example, is as reliable today as it was when it was being actively developed.

 

For example, the 1ds2, released in early 2004, was still having firmware updates months after the release of its successor, the 1ds3, in 2007 (and if I'm counting correctly, it went through about 6 firmware revisions!).

 

Furthermore, if you go to the camera page right now:

EOS (SLR) Camera Systems - EOS Digital SLR Cameras - Lenses - Flashes - Wireless File Transmitters - EOS-1Ds Mark II - Canon USA Consumer Products

 

You will see that a lot of Canon's newest 2010 release software is backwards compatible with the 1ds2, even though it's now 6 years old.

 

So in a way, I hope Leica *does* take a lesson from Canon: fix the bugs where you can, even after your new flagship has sailed. I expect *more* from Leica; Canon and Nikon set the bar here IMO.

 

Anyway, it's worth repeating: Leica knows the value of its brand and how to treat customers; I have no doubt another M8 firmware is forthcoming, and if they fix all the software bugs, then great--I'm not expecting them to fix stuff like the green streak or any further hardware bugs (though of course it would be great if that happened!).

 

The amount of FUD on the forum, sometimes, though, is amazing :)

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You will see that a lot of Canon's newest 2010 release software is backwards compatible with the 1ds2, even though it's now 6 years old.

 

 

 

The amount of FUD on the forum, sometimes, though, is amazing :)

 

You're sure? Just called up a guy having a 1ds2 to give him the good news (leaving it on his voice mail). Thanks on his behalf.

 

Cheers, James!

 

I dig your blog.

Being an amateur and an old-fashioned prints guy, I don't have a blog. My pics get uploaded occasionally by the ones in them, when they like them. Might be fun to post some ten years later :D , though they're nothing special nor anything conspicuous.

Simon

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ho_co

ho_co

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... You gleeful M9 owners, beware. If Leica can abandon the M8, it can just as easily abandon the M9 when the M10 comes out. And the M10 for the M11....

 

Peter, discontinuing a product isn't the same as abandoning it. I may be misunderstanding your point, but Leica will still repair an M5, even though it isn't in the product mix.

:confused:

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cidereye

cidereye

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Whatever the arguments are for or against Leica producing a new firmware for the M8 I know the one mantra I have learned in life after many years - If you don't ask, you don't get!

 

So the more M8 owners ask the more likely that firmware upgrade will come if it indeed ever does. :)

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stunsworth

stunsworth

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You gleeful M9 owners, beware. If Leica can abandon the M8, it can just as easily abandon the M9 when the M10 comes out. And the M10 for the M11. That may be a viable business model for point-and-shoots and cellphones. It is not a viable model for a pro-priced, pro-quality system camera.

 

Who is saying they've abandoned the M8? What's being discussed is whether there will be any major future firmware releases for the M8 - and yes, the same situation will arise with the M9 in the future. That's most certainly _not_ the same as the camera being abandoned.

 

If this new M8 is so important should I stop using my M8 until it becomes available?

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giordano

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Andy I would point out:
  1. Windows XP launched in 2001 is still getting REGULAR updates (I have Version 5.1) and every few weeks my computer asks me if I wish to apply the updates.
  2. I bought my M8 June 2009 and that would equate to Windows Vista not XP
  3. Microsoft are supporting XP and Vista and have not just focussed Windows 7

 

"Mainstream support" for Windows XP ended in April 2009. Currently, Windows XP with Service Pack 3 is in "extended support" which will be withdrawn in April 2014. Extended support promises free security "upgrades" but nothing else. See support.microsoft.com/lifecycle for more

 

Frank, if you look closely at the upgrades your computer shows you, you'll find they consist predominantly of (a) upgrades to components or systems shared with later versions of Windows (such as Internet Explorer or the .Net framework); (B) security upgrades for Windows XP; and © protection of Microsoft intellectual property. Non-security updates to Windows XP are very rare and probably only distributed to keep it compatible with current versions of Internet Explorer and the like.

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Guest BigSplash

Guest BigSplash

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Only if every single M8 owner was prepared to stump up £100 for these additional features (assuming 40,000 M8s have been sold)

 

I would wager that only a very small proportion, maybe 20% might be tempted to do so, which brings your turnover prediction down to around £800k.

 

People will soon update firmware when it's free, but will be more retiscent when it comes to paying for a bug fix and a few odd additional "features" that they may not even want.

 

After all, look at the people who are still using Windows XP ;)

 

Andy that is a cool £800K for Leica's balance sheet. Assuming a mere 20% penetration and a £100K fee (which is about the price of a Leica UV/IR Filter and well below the £165 + £30 for a 21mm lenshood & cap).

 

I would have thought Leica would welcome an extra £800K which is roughly the total profit of the last quarter results. The added benefit being that Leica would be perceived in the market as keeping their old cameras up to date.

 

As a M8 owner I would welcome having the choice to add many of the M9 features without paying £5000 to get the M9. I am in any case waiting for M10

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Guest BigSplash

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Peter, don't be so sure... Leica may have taken a lesson from Canon here... just look at the professional series 1D/1Ds cameras. They are on their forth revision right night (aka Mark IV). And even though these are professional grade and expensive cameras (with the 1Ds similar in price to the M8/9 bodies), Canon was under no obligation to the 'professionals' once the new version came out to back-date the older ones. Nor did they do any of that.

 

They expected that professionals who use the equipment would lease/buy new gear. In the end, the camera is a tool for the professional to do his/her job and their responsibility to buy/lease the right tool for the right job. After all, most professionals claim this expense from their taxes and buy the latest/greatest hardware for their job which finances the pruchases.

T.

 

My understanding driven by a thread I started last year and comments from Stefan D. is that Leica sells mainly to wealthy amateurs. Some pros use the camera for pleasure, and a few pros successfully use the M Leica for weddings, architecture, theatre and street photography, etc ...where the unobtrusive qualities of the M camera are a clear benefit. It has been oft repeated in this forum that sports photographers, war correspondents and the vast majority of pros rarely ever use a Leica M.

 

On that basis IMHO Canon commercial strategy for the Canon 1D has no relevance to Leica M strategy? They and Nikon are the dominant players for the pro and "own" that market. However as Jamie notes maybe Canon and Nikon are actually doing what many here suggest that Leica should do ...just like Hasselblad

 

I would hope that Leica focuses the needs and care abouts of their client base which is different to a pro that earns his living from his equipment.

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Guest BigSplash

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"Mainstream support" for Windows XP ended in April 2009. Currently, Windows XP with Service Pack 3 is in "extended support" which will be withdrawn in April 2014. Extended support promises free security "upgrades" but nothing else. See support.microsoft.com/lifecycle for more

 

Frank, if you look closely at the upgrades your computer shows you, you'll find they consist predominantly of (a) upgrades to components or systems shared with later versions of Windows (such as Internet Explorer or the .Net framework); (B) security upgrades for Windows XP; and © protection of Microsoft intellectual property. Non-security updates to Windows XP are very rare and probably only distributed to keep it compatible with current versions of Internet Explorer and the like.

 

You are correct for the 2001 product Windows XP, which had mainstream support for 8 years, and extended support for 13 years.

 

I bought my M8 in June 2009 with a firmware issued in March 2009.

  • Should I reasonably expect Leica to give me REGULAR firmware updates to fix well known problems, identified months ago through to 2017?
  • Should I expect an extended level of support through to 2022?
  • Should I now 9 months after my M8 purchase be allowed to optionally buy features that are on the M9 that was released 4 months after my purchase?

Leica has IMHO no need to support any of the above and after all the camera delivers great images. However the reason that Leica can charge heavily for its products is because they have a great reputation for looking after their client base, and are ready to fix old equipment, and returning these to as new condition .....we shall see if they can handle software upgrades with the same excellence ;)

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stunsworth

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My understanding driven by a thread I started last year and comments from Stefan D. is that Leica sells mainly to wealthy amateurs.

 

I wish. Most of the many Leica users I've met over the last decade or so have not been what I consider to be wealthy.

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Falk61462

Falk61462

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Has anyone contacted leica since the m9 firmware release on Monday to ask if the m8 update is still on the way???

 

Yes, a M8 firmware update will come out in mid April, according to a reliable source inside Leica. No further details disclosed, though. Best

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twolniewicz

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Hey Tom,

 

With all due respect, as a CPS member, I have to say that Canon isn't quite as cavalier as your note makes them out to be. And you're wrong about them not supporting their products past a new announce, and about Canon not developing compatible products for older models.

 

While it's true the Canon 1 has gone through many revisions, the 1ds, for example, is as reliable today as it was when it was being actively developed.

 

For example, the 1ds2, released in early 2004, was still having firmware updates months after the release of its successor, the 1ds3, in 2007 (and if I'm counting correctly, it went through about 6 firmware revisions!).

 

You will see that a lot of Canon's newest 2010 release software is backwards compatible with the 1ds2, even though it's now 6 years old.

...

 

Jamie;

 

None of the Canon updates add new features or back-date them to the 1D models that are no-longer current. Sure, Canon/Nikon have continued to fix bugs that they came accross through the firmware and I'm sure Leica will continue to do the same. My point was with regards to new features added to older cameras and comparing what Canon in particular is doing.

 

From what I hear Hasselblad digital backs may be an exception with firmware updates backdating features. Leica has done it with the delayed shutter, but I wouldn't expect a flood of features being added going forward. They only released it because they implemented this on the 8.2 that they were selling at the time! Hence it wasn't a big effort and investment to make it available for the M8 crowd. However I doubt that Leica will add more features now that sales of the 8.x models have stopped and i'm sure that the M9 is significantly different in design to permit backporting of code in an economical fasion.

 

Like I said before, bug fixes are completely seperate from this and I'm sure Leica will fix software bugs and/or come up with software work-arounds for hardware bugs. Any other expectations from Leica are not realistic IMO. Sure some rep/exec might have made a comment here or there, but that's not something I'd consider binding and mandating Leica to stick to.

 

Best regards,

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