Speenth Posted November 10, 2009 Share #41 Posted November 10, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) The potential of this concept is demonstrated here (albeit minimally at this early stage): Some nice Concepts for the latest Ricoh GXR : Akihabara News .com I particularly like the idea of wireless communication between the Ricoh body and the lens module - great potential for nature imaging or perhaps (with the module in a suitable housing) for remote photography in inhospitable environments. The camera's potential in scientific and technical applications is enormous. Some of the proposed accessories are interesting too - plug-in storage modules, projectors and printing. A new 'system' is emerging and the sample images so far posted are promising - as Barjohn says, they seem rather better than their X1 equivalents, not least in bokeh and the highly adjustable dof performance this optimising of lens, sensor and processor enables. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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dkCambridgeshire Posted November 10, 2009 Share #42 Posted November 10, 2009 The potential of this concept is demonstrated here (albeit minimally at this early stage): Some nice Concepts for the latest Ricoh GXR : Akihabara News .com I particularly like the idea of wireless communication between the Ricoh body and the lens module - great potential for nature imaging or perhaps (with the module in a suitable housing) for remote photography in inhospitable environments. The camera's potential in scientific and technical applications is enormous. Some of the proposed accessories are interesting too - plug-in storage modules, projectors and printing. A new 'system' is emerging and the sample images so far posted are promising - as Barjohn says, they seem rather better than their X1 equivalents, not least in bokeh and the highly adjustable dof performance this optimising of lens, sensor and processor enables. But TTBOMK there are no published in depth reviews of the X1 available yet with images examples - so comments regarding images comparisons could be a bit premature at present. Sean Reid and Luminous Landscape should be publishing their X1 reviews later this week when we will be able to view some results. Cheers dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barjohn Posted November 10, 2009 Share #43 Posted November 10, 2009 This is true for both cameras; however, we were referring to image samples from DPR on both cameras so they are at least somewhat comparable in terms of the photographer. The point of DPR's approach is not to say what can an expert get from these cameras after some post processing but what is the native capability of the camera in anyones hands. We all know that an expert can create fantastic images with an iPhone camera and certainly great images with a high quality camera. Rather than understanding how an expert overcomes a cameras short comings I want to know what are the shortcomings of the camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coup de foudre Posted November 10, 2009 Share #44 Posted November 10, 2009 i agree with barjohn on all points. the GXR with 50mm is blowing me away in comparison to the X1... Ricoh has always excelled in usability and had excellent lenses. from what i've seen thus far, i like this lens better than the Elmarit. i can't tell you if it's just the lens separately or combined with the sensor, but... and i'm saying this as a very huge Leica glass fan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
khanosu Posted November 10, 2009 Share #45 Posted November 10, 2009 .... so they are at least somewhat comparable in terms of the photographer. By the way the photographers are different. The X1 pictures were made by Andy Westlake and the Richo pictures were made by Simon Joinson. However they both have the same DPR philosophy as far as DPR galleries are concerned, as you have mentioned. Take care! Furrukh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barjohn Posted November 10, 2009 Share #46 Posted November 10, 2009 If you are only looking for a fixed lens camera (ignore the modular nature), the GXR with the EVF and 50mm lens combo is $1,636 compared to compared to $2,349 for the X1 with OVF. Thus you are paying a $713 premium for the red dot and what appears to be an inferior lens and IQ but some might argue better ergonomics. From a size perspective the GXR with lens is 113.9mm x 70.2mm x44.4mm vs. 124mm x 60mm x 50mm for the X1 so it is slightly smaller but taller. Then if you consider the fact that it has a high resolution LCD, a high resolution EVF and the potential that new modules might bring in the future it really starts to distance itself from the X1. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barjohn Posted November 10, 2009 Share #47 Posted November 10, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) By the way the photographers are different. The X1 pictures were made by Andy Westlake and the Richo pictures were made by Simon Joinson. However they both have the same DPR philosophy as far as DPR galleries are concerned, as you have mentioned. Take care! Furrukh I didn't mean to imply it was the same photographer, just the same philosophy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterb Posted November 10, 2009 Share #48 Posted November 10, 2009 Gimmicky? This looks like a brilliant concept and think that Ricoh have gone off in an exciting direction here. A major benefit of this system is that it provides the user with the same interface for widely different lens/sensor combinations. This, to me, is a great plus because I find switching between different digital cameras can be confusing: not like switching between two film cameras, like a Leica-M and a Nikon-F, for example. So, now, one will be able to use different camera formats, while maintaining the same user interface. As for the X1, if the image and lems quality of the X1 is the what we have seen up till now and that of the Ricoh GWR with the 50mm-Macro module is what it seems to be, then the latter will be a veritable X1-killer. —Mitch/Bangkok Walks in Bangkok (GRD3) I agree totally, Mitch. This brilliant concept deals with the biggest issue I've had with digital photography and legacy equipment. In the film era you could buy a camera (or system) and Kodak, Fuji and Agfa would deal with the sensor. In the digital era you invest in a camera and its 'film' (so to speak). The moment the a new model with an improved sensor comes out you have to decide whether to upgrade or stay. M8 users are already perplexed by the M9 with it's full frame sensor. In the old days if Kodak came out with a better film you didn't have to buy a whole new camera system to use with it. We all bought Leica gear initially because film was so bad then as it got finer and finer we bought Leica because film was so good. The bottom line we wanted to get the most out of that frame of film. Except for high priced medium format cameras with digital backs and lenses, now scrappy Ricoh has offered a new concept where you can buy a body and then deal with glass/sensor/shutter combos to use with it far more affordably (more or less). Which one you choose to buy is your choice. What could be better? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsrockit Posted November 10, 2009 Share #49 Posted November 10, 2009 If you are only looking for a fixed lens camera (ignore the modular nature), the GXR with the EVF and 50mm lens combo is $1,636 compared to compared to $2,349 for the X1 with OVF. Thus you are paying a $713 premium for the red dot and what appears to be an inferior lens and IQ but some might argue better ergonomics. I don't need the OVF and like the X1 because it is set-up like a classic camera... I'm not paying a premium for a red dot and don't see why people would want to compare these two cameras... they are totally different. There is still no competition to the X1 IMHO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted November 10, 2009 Share #50 Posted November 10, 2009 The GXR is surely a very innovative camera with tremendous potential. However, one factor we do not know about yet is the build quality. I have a Ricoh GR1 film camera which was (and still is s/h) an expensive P&S compact with a high quality lens. But it has not proved to be very durable because the window covering the flash etc fell out after taking it out of the case probably less than 50 times. I'd expect the Leica X1 to be a lot more durable than the GXR especially if Leica is offering a three year warranty. Cheers dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterb Posted November 10, 2009 Share #51 Posted November 10, 2009 i agree with barjohn on all points. the GXR with 50mm is blowing me away in comparison to the X1... Ricoh has always excelled in usability and had excellent lenses. from what i've seen thus far, i like this lens better than the Elmarit. i can't tell you if it's just the lens separately or combined with the sensor, but... and i'm saying this as a very huge Leica glass fan. Agree totally. What's more, Ricoh has been improving their image processing firmware from what I can tell to keep noise at a respectable minimum. If the same (or even new, improved) firmware that went into their small sensor cameras is going to be applied to their large APS-C sensor (via the camera I assume) then a splendid time is guaranteed for all! Bring it on! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottocrat Posted November 10, 2009 Share #52 Posted November 10, 2009 If you are only looking for a fixed lens camera (ignore the modular nature), the GXR with the EVF and 50mm lens combo is $1,636 compared to compared to $2,349 for the X1 with OVF. Thus you are paying a $713 premium for the red dot and what appears to be an inferior lens and IQ but some might argue better ergonomics. Sorry but while this Ricoh certainly interests me (especially with that lens combo) it really is far too premature to start bandying about assertions like "inferior lens and IQ" - this merely on the basis of a few sample images. We need to see some reviews. There were reasons why those DPR X1 image samples were the way they were. They demonstrated the X1's abilities in difficult lighting situations, that was clearly what the photographer was seeking to do, and by all accounts the camera was performing just fine. Based on what we've seen so far the X1 still has more entries in the plus column and fewer in the minus column for me; I see no pressing reason to cancel my preorder yet. I do wish the reviewers would get a move on with their reviews though... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenor1 Posted November 10, 2009 Share #53 Posted November 10, 2009 The GXR certainly fulfills the "wants" that may people feel the X1 is lacking. I applaud Ricoh for such innovation. The GXR certainly is strong competition for the X1 as another high-end compact camera. I wonder what Canon and Nikon have in the works? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coup de foudre Posted November 10, 2009 Share #54 Posted November 10, 2009 ottocrat -- if there's any way for me to get my hands on the Ricoh, i will. (and there's honestly a much better chance of me being allowed "time" with it.) unfortunately, my contact is here in Paris and i go to the States for Thanksgiving so i'm not sure if my timing is optimum. dunk -- i had a probleminitially with my GRD's, but overall they've proved quite durable and i've not been exactly kind. i believe my warranty was for two years jsrockit -- please define your idea of a "classic" camera. in my mind, the original GR was most definitely a classic! and i find it amusing that you won't even consider a camera from a company that has made some of the best of them in terms of usability. i'm not saying you have to get it (i know that X1 is yours come hell or high water), merely don't knock the elegant Ricoh interface until you've tried it. it is superb. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted November 10, 2009 Share #55 Posted November 10, 2009 in what appears to be a package as small as or smaller than an X1 I'm not sure about that. On Dpreview's comparison photos, the Ricoh looks pretty big. It's a lot bigger than a GRII. I am a big fan of Ricoh's products as far as the user friendliness, but my verdict is still out. I like a 35mm lens and the X1 seems like a nice camera. I have been pondering the Micro Four Thirds, X1 etc. but right now I have a DLUX4 for party pics, an M8, M9, and some film Leicas. The MP with a 35cron is so small that it seems like I shouldn't even consider anything new. Right now, my gut feeling is to hang on to my M8 and leave the 35cron attached to it to do whatever it is I would use the X1 or any other small camera for. Looking at the used market and having an M9 enables me to treat the M8 more like my main carry with me wherever camera. I know this sounds weird, but psychologically, I feel freed up to experiment with the M8 because it is not my main workhorse. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
c6gowin Posted November 10, 2009 Share #56 Posted November 10, 2009 ... From a size perspective the GXR with lens is 113.9mm x 70.2mm x44.4mm vs. 124mm x 60mm x 50mm for the X1 so it is slightly smaller but taller. ... Not sure where your dimensions came from. Here is what I got from DPReview for the GXR with 50mm APS-C sensor combo and from Leica's website for the X1. GXR 113.9mm X 70mm X 74mm X1 124mm X 59.5mm X 32mm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhabedi Posted November 10, 2009 Share #57 Posted November 10, 2009 Not sure where your dimensions came from. Here is what I got from DPReview for the GXR with 50mm APS-C sensor combo and from Leica's website for the X1. GXR 113.9mm X 70mm X 74mm X1 124mm X 59.5mm X 32mm I think 32mm is without the lens. We already had this on another X1 thread about a month ago. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted November 10, 2009 Share #58 Posted November 10, 2009 I just looked at the pre-production samples from the Ricoh on dpreview. Impressive. No matter which camera floats your boat, it's an exciting time to be a photographer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steich Posted November 10, 2009 Share #59 Posted November 10, 2009 Nice idea....although I think a photo bag with three or four modules will be quite bulky- the rectangular "interface" part on the one side and the conventional round "lens" part on the other... But anyway, we had this "lens-and-sensor-module" long ago, in the Digilux 2, although not user-exchangable... I would love to see it again in a "Digilux 2-010" (BTW: I tried to quote Mark Norton´s "Anatomy of the Leica Digilux 2" thread....can't find it..) Regards, Stefan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted November 10, 2009 Share #60 Posted November 10, 2009 Brilliant idea for those who like changing formats but i don't personally. APS-C is OK with a 50mm (aka 75), i would just need a 21(32) and a 28 (42). But why would Ricoh launch lenses like that with the same sensor? A CV 21/4 and a Leica 28/2.8 would be less bulky and more handy anyway. Give me a Leica X2 with M mount + a great EVF please and i will stop dreaming of a digital CL... perhaps. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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