Buying my first Leica.

[jerico82]

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New to the forum and I have a couple of questions.

 

I'm currently using a couple of Nikons, D200, D2X etc, and I'm considering buying my first Leica. The model I'm pondering is an used M8 or perhaps an X1. The reason for me buying a new camera are mostly not being able to carry my nikons everywhere I go. So for me to afford the Leica I will have to part with my Nikon equipment. I mostly take social and landscape pictures.

 

The questions are as follows.

 

1. How good are the non leica lenses and can you give suggestions of good starter lenses?

2. Are there any problems and limitations with using non Leica lenses on the M8.

3. Are all the problems that were reported at the release of the M8 resolved (the IR problems etc)

4. The reason for asking all these questions regarding non leica lenses is that I simply can afford "real" lenses initially.

5. Is the ISO performance on par with my Nikons?

 

Thanks

[jsrockit]

 

The questions are as follows.

 

1. How good are the non leica lenses and can you give suggestions of good starter lenses?

2. Are there any problems and limitations with using non Leica lenses on the M8.

3. Are all the problems that were reported at the release of the M8 resolved (the IR problems etc)

4. The reason for asking all these questions regarding non leica lenses is that I simply can afford "real" lenses initially.

5. Is the ISO performance on par with my Nikons?

 

1) Voigtlander, Zeiss, Konica, Canon SM (with adapter), and Nikon SM (with adapter) are all good enough... and will be on par with a lot of Nikon stuff. Good starter? On the low-end? Voigtlander 35mm Pancake f2.5 lens.

 

2) Yes, in some ways... look up 6 bit coding.

 

3) Not sure if they are completely... you still need to use filters in some color situations.

 

4) Voigtlander stuff is great to start with... Leica stuff will be nicer, but the Voigtlander stuff is still nice.

 

5) In some ways yes, in some ways no. Nothing to stress over though. None of these cameras are perfect yet.

[mikki]

5) I own both a Nikon D200 and a Leica M8. The ISO-performance of the Leica a about one stop better than that of the Nikon. Having that said, the newer Nikons like D300, perform alot better in this area. The D200 is a bit of a noisy camera. If that is good enough for you, you will be pleased with the M8. If you want state-of-the-art ISO-performance, you must look somewhere else.

 

BTW: if you re looking for a good low-light lens, the Voigtlander Nokton 50/1.5 can be recommended (arround €250 2nd hand). I also like the 28mm length very much with the M8. Consider the Voigtlander 28/3.5, it's a great, cheap lens but diffecult to find 2nd hand (its discontinued)

[epand56]

How good are the non leica lenses and can you give suggestions of good starter lenses?

 

Many Voigtlander lenses are outstanding glasses. Some have minor problems such like focus shift at some apertures and maybe softer focus, other have nothing to envy to the Leica's noble sisters.

I suggest you to register and have a check on Sean Reid website http://www.reidreviews.com where almost all the voigtlander lenses are reviewed at high level.

This will help you to decide.

[pca92]

New to the forum and I have a couple of questions.

 

I'm currently using a couple of Nikons, D200, D2X etc, and I'm considering buying my first Leica. The model I'm pondering is an used M8 or perhaps an X1. The reason for me buying a new camera are mostly not being able to carry my nikons everywhere I go. So for me to afford the Leica I will have to part with my Nikon equipment. I mostly take social and landscape pictures.

 

The questions are as follows.

 

1. How good are the non leica lenses and can you give suggestions of good starter lenses?

2. Are there any problems and limitations with using non Leica lenses on the M8.

3. Are all the problems that were reported at the release of the M8 resolved (the IR problems etc)

4. The reason for asking all these questions regarding non leica lenses is that I simply can afford "real" lenses initially.

5. Is the ISO performance on par with my Nikons?

 

Thanks

 

Hi Jerico,

 

I was in the same situation: dslr user and willing to have a smaller high-quality kit. I also like to use my camera in manual settings, therefore the "low-gadgetry" approach of the Leica system was appealing.

 

I finally chose a used M8 and I am really really happy with it. It cannot fully replace my dslr but "social and landscape" really are what the M8 is really good at (imho).

 

1. I own some voigtlander lenses and and I find them excellent. As proposed by Enrico, you should get a subscription for the reid reviews. Your opinion on Leica vs CV vs Zeiss might change after reading his in-depth reviews.

2. Mainly 6-bit coding, and some Zeiss lenses do not bring up the correct frame lines.

3. It depends on what you mean by resolved: you can use (expensive) filters, but you have to code your lenses to use them at best. Again see reid reviews for whwich filters to buy.

In my leica-begginer opinion, I found out that the filters are really useful when there are people in the images (eg: interiors, crowded areas, people wearing suits). Some of them will wear synthetic clothes which will appear purple. If you shoot black and white this wont be a problem.

4. So do I... just compare the price of an Ultron28 with the Summicron28... But in this particular case I find the summicron better. This is not always the case though.

5. ISO performance might be a bit disappointing, especially compared to full frame dslr. But I find the M8 noise not that bad, especially in B&W where it can be beautiful.

 

If I may add another 2 of my discoveries (these are personal experiences, that can easily be challenged by others in the forum):

* precise framing is really difficult when compared to slr. This is sometimes a problem. I still have to learn how to anticipate the real framing from what I see in the finder

* the jpg engine of the camera is crappy when shooting in color. You really have to use raws with good raw software. But for B&W I like the camera jpg rendering...

 

HTH

Paul

 

ps: do not hesitate, and get an m8, not an X1

[jerico82]

Thank you all.

 

I have posted my old kit for sale and will visit the photo convention in sthlm this weekend. And there I believe my M8 will be waiting for me. Thank you all for all the tips you shared,

 

Stay tuned for my first Leica pictures....

[jaapv]

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In the lens department here is an intermediate option - he excellent Zeiss lenses!

[Luke_Miller]

Is the ISO performance on par with my Nikons?

 

I got my M8.2 two weeks ago and one of the first things I did was to compare its ISO 1250 (ISO 1600 equivalent) performance against my D300 at ISO 1600. At 1250 I would estimate that the M8.2 is about a half stop noiser than my D300. The M8.2 is much better than my (now sold) D200.

[jerico82]

Ok, is there any difference in ISO performance between the leica 8 and 8.2?

[Luke_Miller]

Ok, is there any difference in ISO performance between the leica 8 and 8.2?

 

I'm a new kid on the block with Leicas, but I believe there is no difference. Viewfinder frames, shutter and the glass over the LCD are different.

[wilfredo]

Thank you all.

 

I have posted my old kit for sale and will visit the photo convention in sthlm this weekend. And there I believe my M8 will be waiting for me. Thank you all for all the tips you shared,

 

Stay tuned for my first Leica pictures....

 

Good Luck. Let us know what lenses you decide to go with? There are many excellent options available and just about any lens renders excellent results on the M8. I use Konica, Zeiss and Leica glass. Zeiss glass is extremely sharp, Leica glass in general has a softer bokeh. It's all a matter of taste at this level and of course what your wallet can shell out. I've tried some Voiglander lenses and was impressed, excellent value.

[spylaw4]

<snip>

The questions are as follows.

 

1. How good are the non leica lenses and can you give suggestions of good starter lenses?

2. Are there any problems and limitations with using non Leica lenses on the M8.

3. Are all the problems that were reported at the release of the M8 resolved (the IR problems etc)

4. The reason for asking all these questions regarding non leica lenses is that I simply can afford "real" lenses initially.

5. Is the ISO performance on par with my Nikons?

 

Thanks

 

5. I've no experience of Nikon but others have helped you on this point.

1. Some are very good, some suffer from a few problems - e.g. CV sample variation, but then you mostly get what you pay for.

2. No problems as such, but check that any Zeiss lens brings up the correct frame lines. Zeiss can supply a correct mount if asked nicely. Some CV lenses are LTM mount and will require an LTM->M bayonet adapter (again for the correct frame lines). It would well be worth getting a Milich one with the 6-bit pits milled in.

3. Generally yes. The early M8 batch were factory fixed and firmware updates did the rest - check yours has the latest 2.004. A used M8 especially if it has a Passport still valid is now very good value, as is an 8.2.

4. Remember the 1.33 crop when selecting lenses 50 = 67, 35 = 47, 28 = 37. Don't try for too many lenses at first. I would go for a 28 or a 35 to start (but not both). 2nd hand from a good dealer is the way to go initially. Both the Zeiss 28/2.8 and 35/2 are very good. If you want to splash out a bit on a single lens get hold of a 2nd hand 35 Summicron - the latest version you can afford - ASPH if you can stretch that far. Don't worry about going to f1.4, except if you want to get the Nokton 50/1.5 (you'll need that adapter) - or try the new Heliar 50/2 just arriving.

Let us know your eventual choice and post some shots in the photo forum! Good luck.

[ChrisC]

I'd say that Reid Reviews has some essential reading for you about the M8/M8.2 platform, and M fit lenses of various makes. The M8 has an absurdly fast shutter which is noisier than the one-stop slower M8.2. Some here believe the M8 shutter was a daft choice by Leica, that it may well be prone to future failure, that the forces employed to attain the M8's 1/8000 top speed inevitably make it a weaker, less durable shutter than the M8.2's. The latter is mostly unsubstantiated gossip fuelled by some logic.

 

The M8.2 framelines are set at a more moderate focus distance and are mostly more accurate for normal rangefinder shooting. Any early issues with some M8s are pretty much sorted by the launch of the M8.2. I have an M8; I'd recommend an M8.2 if only for the quieter shutter and more user friendly framelines. I'd also recommend that you do not make the mistake of translating DSLR lens ranges and buy several M-fit lenses. Buy one lens, two if you must, but get used to a different way of working with your rangefinder; you may well find that you were a closet one-lens-photographer all along - in which case a corker of a lens is a better buy than two lesser lenses.

 

Finally; many here are obsessed here about fast lenses. They come at a price; cost, weight, viewfinder interruption, sometimes focus shift, and performance stopped down to the aperture range which might be your preference. I like small, slower, lighter lenses for f8 photography. Slower lenses are easier to design, make, and buy.

 

Good luck.

 

.............. Chris

[jerico82]

Wow, thank you all for the informitive replies. I see there are a lot of knowledge out there. I will keep you updated regarding my hunt for the leica. Just have to make sure I get top dollar for my old gear.

 

And again, thanks a lot for all the feedback.

 

/Jakob