chrism Posted October 30, 2009 Share #81 Posted October 30, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) I'd be delighted to speculate on the psychpathology involved in such posts, especially when repeated, but I'm not being paid for it so I shan't bother. My quick diagnosis is in the smiley. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 30, 2009 Posted October 30, 2009 Hi chrism, Take a look here What would happen if the M9 was a flawed camera?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
stunsworth Posted October 30, 2009 Share #82 Posted October 30, 2009 To avoid any doubt I have repeatedly said I have NO, absolutely NO knowledge of a M10. That said I am of the very firm opinion that there wil be a M10 Then please stop repeating the 10/10/10 date on what seems every other post - a suggestion not an order. Yes, I too am certain there will at some stage be an M10, why would anyone think otherwise? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted October 31, 2009 Share #83 Posted October 31, 2009 Looking at the other side of the coin, I would be advising anything to do with a '10' in it should be avoided. As a precedent, look to the R10! With any luck that will end this silly 10/10/10/10/10......... talk, but then again probably not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted October 31, 2009 Share #84 Posted October 31, 2009 Back on topic the M9 is a flawed camera, just like the M8 has it flaws and shortcomings. Just read some of the threads about the problems. Red/magenta cast on left hand side of images with wide lenses, freezes/lockups, IR problem not completely solved, slow formatting, slow review and zooming, as slow or slower write times to the card then the M8 (Yes the files are bigger but so what. Leica had 3 years, & 2000 dallors more in cost over the original M8, to incorporate faster and more stable electronics), Line in the images on some cameras right out of the box, user profiles not being saved and there are a host of other reports. What it boils down to is the people that have bought the M9 are OK with these flaws @ a cost of $7000. I am not even if I had $7000 to spend. I have a M8 that still takes wonderful images. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mby Posted October 31, 2009 Share #85 Posted October 31, 2009 Guess I can live with the 'flaws' of mine... Besides, I'm also a flawed person: my car's faster then me, many optics can see better than me, I can't even fly. So horses for courses... - I'm happy with what I've got now. Best, Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted October 31, 2009 Share #86 Posted October 31, 2009 Of course it is not flawed. The first page of text in the instruction book tells us as much: Leica would like to thank you for purchasing the LEICA M9 and congratulate you on your choice. With this unique digital view- and rangefinder camera, you have made an excellent selection. Thank goodness for that and there was me thinking that I might have made a mistake Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EarlBurrellPhoto Posted October 31, 2009 Share #87 Posted October 31, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) The same thing that happened with the M8: some people would admit it and others would deny it. The louder the volume of people in the latter camp, the longer it would take for Leica to step up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ario Arioldi Posted October 31, 2009 Share #88 Posted October 31, 2009 I'd be delighted to speculate on the psychpathology involved in such posts, especially when repeated, but I'm not being paid for it so I shan't bother. My quick diagnosis is in the smiley. Chris nondum matura est, nolo acerbam sumere (Esopo) Cheers, Ario Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted October 31, 2009 Share #89 Posted October 31, 2009 I think that there is a huge difference between the following: The M9 is a flawed camera that has flaws that cannot be simply fixed (After pages of analysis etc over several weeks it seems to me that it is NOT flawed) The M9 has some early "minor" bugs that the expert users under tough conditions have identified that seemingly should be easily fixed by a simple free firmware upgrade .he M8 .. There are no show stopper bugs that have been listed. The M9 could be improved at a future date....true of any engineered item. Overall it seems that Leica have achieved a brilliant camera. Judging from this months LFI where it is compared with Canon 5DII the Leica M9 seems to out perform the Canon in image quality. The M8 to my eyes seems to arguably at least match it in image quality also......but I am not objective when it comes to the M8! I only wish that when I bought my Mercedes it had as few bugs as the M9 Leica seems to have at this point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mby Posted October 31, 2009 Share #90 Posted October 31, 2009 I think that there is a huge difference between the following: The M9 is a flawed camera that has flaws that cannot be simply fixed (After pages of analysis etc over several weeks it seems to me that it is NOT flawed) The M9 has some early "minor" bugs that the expert users under tough conditions have identified that seemingly should be easily fixed by a simple free firmware upgrade .he M8 .. There are no show stopper bugs that have been listed. The M9 could be improved at a future date....true of any engineered item. Overall it seems that Leica have achieved a brilliant camera. Judging from this months LFI where it is compared with Canon 5DII the Leica M9 seems to out perform the Canon in image quality. The M8 to my eyes seems to arguably at least match it in image quality also......but I am not objective when it comes to the M8! I only wish that when I bought my Mercedes it had as few bugs as the M9 Leica seems to have at this point. Couldn't agree more... I guess what got a bit missing in all discussions is the individual's benchmark; that benchmark could be unrealistic - with regards to laws of physics/engineering ("impossible to build") or - with regards to economics ("impossible to sell at or above costs required to build"). If it is realistic, then there is either a competing product already available, or one has found a market niche, so start your own company and build a camera with the specifics that you ask for (and hey, as exclusivity on the M-bayonet ran out already some time ago, one could even leverage Leica's M lens series). Personally, I do not see why Leica owes us something, let alone a specific product at a specific price point; we all are in a free market environment and have to learn to live with that... Best, Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrism Posted October 31, 2009 Share #91 Posted October 31, 2009 nondum matura est, nolo acerbam sumere (Esopo) Cheers, Ario vos es pius benignitas quam mihi! Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
george_b Posted October 31, 2009 Share #92 Posted October 31, 2009 vos es pius benignitas quam mihi! Chris Would someone care to translate for me (and the others of the un-educated among the forum) please? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elansprint72 Posted October 31, 2009 Share #93 Posted October 31, 2009 vos es pius benignitas quam mihi! Chris Lingua mortua sola lingua bona est. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtZ Posted October 31, 2009 Author Share #94 Posted October 31, 2009 Would someone care to translate for me (and the others of the un-educated among the forum) please? You are dutiful kind like me! (something like that) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted October 31, 2009 Share #95 Posted October 31, 2009 I know many will not agree with me but I have the feeling whenever I pick up my M9 that it's an incomplete product. That doesn't mean it's not a good camera but I would have preferred Leica to have taken the time (and money) to do more than they did in moving on from the M8. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtZ Posted October 31, 2009 Author Share #96 Posted October 31, 2009 I know many will not agree with me but I have the feeling whenever I pick up my M9 that it's an incomplete product. That doesn't mean it's not a good camera but I would have preferred Leica to have taken the time (and money) to do more than they did in moving on from the M8. Mark, That's exactly my feeling too. You have just put the right words to the feelings I had when I started this thread. Leica should have learnt from the M8 experience (and mistakes!). The M9 shouldn't have any issues like magenta cast on the left, camera freezes, weird artifacts, slow speed processing... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted October 31, 2009 Share #97 Posted October 31, 2009 I know many will not agree with me but I have the feeling whenever I pick up my M9 that it's an incomplete product. That doesn't mean it's not a good camera but I would have preferred Leica to have taken the time (and money) to do more than they did in moving on from the M8. Hmmm ... I think I had the same feeling when I first picked up my M6, and I wasn't that happy about the M7, and well there was that whole series of flawed cameras which in my case ran from the 20D, 1DmkII, 5D, 5DmkII... OK, I had some gripes with the M8 - I really never got used to not being able to use a truly wide lense without having to put on an external viewfinder - and I didn't like the whole business of IR filters. The M9? It's as incomplete (or complete) as my 5D2... Perfect? No. Worth having? IMHO - YES! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted October 31, 2009 Share #98 Posted October 31, 2009 I certainly wouldn't say the M8 was a complete product - in many ways, it was toe-in-the-water, deeply flawed. The M8.2 addressed some of the issues - accurate framelines, a quieter shutter, sapphire glass - but the M9 has changed the rules on even those three improvements - more messing with the framelines, a different sounding shutter and no glass. It has a FF sensor, true, but virtually everything else is the same or similar. It's a sluggish old thing to use and there's still the question mark over the red banding which Leica do not seem to wish to comment on, still less fix. I think the camera should be more correctly thought of as an M8.3. It's too early to call it an M9, there hasn't been enough progress to think of it in those terms. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwelland Posted November 1, 2009 Share #99 Posted November 1, 2009 In all honesty the M{1...9} are all flawed cameras in much the same way that all rear engined Porsche 911's & variants are flawed automobiles. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
swamiji Posted November 1, 2009 Share #100 Posted November 1, 2009 I think the camera should be more correctly thought of as an M8.3. It's too early to call it an M9, there hasn't been enough progress to think of it in those terms. How much change between a M6TTL and a M7? Aperture priority if I remember correctly. So a M6TTL using today metaphor would be a M6.2. The FF sensor is enough to make it a M9, other issues aside. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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