rebelfocus Posted October 26, 2009 Share #21 Posted October 26, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Mark, as an M9 owner, I can assert that the problem is there with 28 and 21mm lens (maybe with 35mm too?). For the record, I don't see anything like that at 28 or 35 (coded lenses). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 26, 2009 Posted October 26, 2009 Hi rebelfocus, Take a look here What would happen if the M9 was a flawed camera?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
UliWer Posted October 26, 2009 Share #22 Posted October 26, 2009 What would happen, if this Forum turned out to be a source of flawed information? Why starting a thread with rumours in spite of reading? - 3 days week in Solms: It has been already said in this Forum that Leica works on double shifts on the M9. Yesterday in the german forum a user reported from his visit in the factory that the serial numbers produced at the moment were 3811xxx; when the first M9 were delivered they were 3803xxx. They are producing about 50 M9s a day. http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/forum-zur-leica-m9/103487-wartezeit-m9.html#post1091144 Leica has contracted a new partner for their deliver logistics who will take over all deliveries of Leica products and spare parts from November on. - red shift issue with wide lenses There are several threads about this in the forum. It is not only an issue with the M9, but with the M8 as well! So any theory of another position of the M9 sensor causing this problem seems to lack any evidence, since the "unmoved" sensor of the M8 shows the same red shift. As far as I understand sandymc, his theory is not that it is a sensor issue but caused by decentration of lenses. My personal exerience with the 3.8/18 on the M8 is, that it very often seems to be an issue of the left edge only, but in reality both edges show the red shift equally, but very often different lighting or background make you think it is limited on the left edge. So we might go on working on theories about this, sandymc has done great to find a workaround. Let us make clear towards Leica, that we exspect this issue to be solved by firmware or any other solution so we can forget it.This applies to the M8 as well as the M9. The same is true for the many freeze out and slow working issues which were reported many times. Rumours don't help. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mauribix Posted October 26, 2009 Share #23 Posted October 26, 2009 hey have made it seems a significant quantity of M9 already and have shipped these. The factory would have had feedback since a few weeks about any reliability issues, and I am sure we would have seen many postings here about a common defect. There have been no reports of any hardware problem that I have seen. To be sincere, many reported the same problem/issue: there's an overcorrected border in images take with wide angle lenses. I.E. irregular vignetting. I'm not sayin' that there's a hardware problem, I (as many) am sayin' that there's a problem. Stop. Actually it doesn't bother me that much, but it's there, and I need that to be fixed. They're not sayin' that there's a HARDWARE problem for sure, some are guessing what it could be, and some are sayin' that there's a hardware problem rather than software. IMHO, complaining about that issue is more than a right for those who trusted the brand, and bought the camera. Isn't it? It's still loyal IMO. You may intend this as constructive or not, it depends on you I guess. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mauribix Posted October 26, 2009 Share #24 Posted October 26, 2009 For the record, I don't see anything like that at 28 or 35 (coded lenses). My lenses are coded by factory default (except the nocti), the issue with the M8 is clearly visible with my camera under different kind of light sources. Much more visible in sunny daylight. If you don't have that issue, probably I'm in a badluck (as some here). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianman Posted October 26, 2009 Share #25 Posted October 26, 2009 They have made it seems a significant quantity of M9 already and have shipped these. Really ? I wonder where they are then ! Where did you get this information ? Certainly not in Belgium, where only one demo unit has been received by each reseller (so I am told). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelfocus Posted October 26, 2009 Share #26 Posted October 26, 2009 There remains the possibility they have mounted the sensor off-centre as the least-worst option in bringing the M9 to market in double-quick time. Maybe Leica thought we wouldn't notice. They wouldn't have been that stupid, surely? Would they? I just took the 2 shots of a white screen with a 50 Cron V and applied a some crazy curves in photoshop so see if the sensor could be mounted off-centre as Mark suggested... Note: The lens is not coded and was manually in the camera Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/101538-what-would-happen-if-the-m9-was-a-flawed-camera/?do=findComment&comment=1090397'>More sharing options...
thrice Posted October 26, 2009 Share #27 Posted October 26, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) The first shot does look off-centre Tony. Perhaps this is inherited from the M8 design where it was less noticed due to the crop? I can only speculate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted October 26, 2009 Share #28 Posted October 26, 2009 Really ? I wonder where they are then ! Where did you get this information ? Certainly not in Belgium, where only one demo unit has been received by each reseller (so I am told). My point is that : Units have been shipped (and you confirm this for Belgium) to the many Leica retailers across the world .... Many people have the cameras as evidenced daily by Forum members giving feedback. The normal production quanity for an M camera is about 12000 per year. When the M8 first was launched the number was 20,000 for the first year. The M9 is likely to be larger than 20,000 I guess for year one. Against that background Leica should be looking at shipping 1000 units each month minimum currently. Dont forget they started producing units well before the launch date to be ready, and prior to that they had beta samples for I understand three months with selected users to check and rectify any bugs. he above analysis suggests to me that they must have in excess of 500 units in the filed and maybe as many as 2000. If there was a hardware issue I believe that this would have surfaced by now with those sort of quantities. Please note the above has nothing to do with meeting their delinquent backlog, nor the likely extra surge for Christmas .......I could well believe that they will not meet demand until mid 2010, and maybe end of 2010 if the euphoria about the M9 we are reading about continues. Also please note ther will I am sure be niggles that need firmware fixes such as the shutter release issue. I can believe that there seems to be an issue with the 18mm lens reported here but I doubt that this is going to require a major hardware redesign as suggested above happened with M8 (transistor problem). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted October 26, 2009 Share #29 Posted October 26, 2009 Then she said that, her hunch was that some modifications needed to be made to the M9. I don't see anything wrong with mine, and since a lot of people who are pros or at least shoot a lot, have already received their cameras, I don't think this is the case. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mauribix Posted October 26, 2009 Share #30 Posted October 26, 2009 I just took the 2 shots of a white screen with a 50 Cron V and applied a some crazy curves in photoshop so see if the sensor could be mounted off-centre as Mark suggested... Actually I can't see the point in these shots. Let me say, how reliable they are? IMO I guess this kind of tests need to be measured and made with a lot of peculiarity not easy to get just by shooting at a monitor. (i.e. axis measures and correction, diffused light, light measurement...). I may be wrong, but I'd like to see how you can draw a conclusion with these shots. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelfocus Posted October 26, 2009 Share #31 Posted October 26, 2009 Actually I can't see the point in these shots. Let me say, how reliable they are?IMO I guess this kind of tests need to be measured and made with a lot of peculiarity not easy to get just by shooting at a monitor. (i.e. axis measures and correction, diffused light, light measurement...). I may be wrong, but I'd like to see how you can draw a conclusion with these shots. I'm not drawing any conclusion. Neither am I implying that there is any real significance to real-world photographs. Seeing as you asked. The shots were taken in a darkened room, lens focussed to infinity at about 50 cms from an Apple 30" display (all white screen, perpendicular, centred). Manual Lens setting made in camera, DNG, f8, ISO 800 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted October 26, 2009 Share #32 Posted October 26, 2009 I don't see anything wrong with mine, and since a lot of people who are pros or at least shoot a lot, have already received their cameras, I don't think this is the case. Hi Bernd-- It could potentially be a firmware upgrade Leica is waiting for, since there are obviously some (non-fatal) write-time issues with the M9 and performance with large SD cards (and buffer issues with continuous mode)... and a bunch of minor flaws that are probably in the queue to be fixed. Anyway, that's to be expected; the M8 was the same and then optimized. Perhaps--and this is purest speculation on my part--if there are any delays in production they are waiting for the next firmware revision to really move a lot more product out the door--it would certainly cut down on their support calls Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted October 26, 2009 Share #33 Posted October 26, 2009 I live in LA, and cameras are trickling in every week. Sure, there will be firmware improvements etc. but people who work for Leica are telling me that they are working as fast as they can on the M9. My speculation was the sensor shipment as well, but it may very well be a machine to automate a certain aspect of production that creates the bottleneck. A friend of mine in Germany owns a very high-tech machining company and periodically he buys modified machining tools in the million dollar price range. I can't remember a time, he isn't waiting for delivery of some tooling item to speed up production because otherwise it will trickle down to delays for his customers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicaiste Posted October 26, 2009 Share #34 Posted October 26, 2009 Really ? I wonder where they are then ! Where did you get this information ? Certainly not in Belgium, where only one demo unit has been received by each reseller (so I am told). They were regular M9 that the distributor tried to force the dealers to keep as demo unit. Didn't work well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianman Posted October 26, 2009 Share #35 Posted October 26, 2009 My point is that : [*]Units have been shipped (and you confirm this for Belgium) to the many Leica retailers across the world .... [*]Many people have the cameras as evidenced daily by Forum members giving feedback. Wait wait, wait... I did not CONFIRM anything.... if you read my message it clearly states "so I'm told' ! Also I don't count the units shipped to Leica retailers as demos to be for sale. he above analysis suggests to me that they must have in excess of 500 units in the filed and maybe as many as 2000. Ah, I misunderstood you comment of "significant quantity" !! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted October 26, 2009 Share #36 Posted October 26, 2009 I'm not drawing any conclusion. Neither am I implying that there is any real significance to real-world photographs. Seeing as you asked. The shots were taken in a darkened room, lens focussed to infinity at about 50 cms from an Apple 30" display (all white screen, perpendicular, centred). Manual Lens setting made in camera, DNG, f8, ISO 800 I think the shots are interesting and I see the same kind of asymmetrical vignetting in a shot I've just taken of a plain wall using my 35 Summicron. It's obvious enough that I can see it when viewed on the rear LCD. I've no idea how significant an issue it could be - I personally don't use lenses wider than 28mm and I haven't noticed a problem in 'real world' use - but I think it's important that the offset sensor theory is addressed quite soon. There's a danger that new rumours will quickly start flying around the internet which may prove damaging to Leica in the long run. That said, the present interesting discussion is likely to be drowned out by tedious arguments about how many cameras have been shipped to Belgium. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianman Posted October 26, 2009 Share #37 Posted October 26, 2009 That said, the present interesting discussion is likely to be drowned out by tedious arguments about how many cameras have been shipped to Belgium. Then maybe you should take the parts that are interesting TO YOU and make a NEW thread on YOUR interesting subject. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted October 26, 2009 Share #38 Posted October 26, 2009 - they should have stuffed significantly more mb or ram into the computer so that you can take at least a dozen shots on continuous. Though i rarely use the camera this way, memory is so cheap there is absolutely no excuse for skimping on the ram the way they seemingly have! I'd guess the problem is more to do with the processor not being able to move data around fast enough rather than having enough memory for a dozen shots. There's no point in adding memory if the processor can't utilise it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brt3 Posted October 26, 2009 Share #39 Posted October 26, 2009 ...The problem from what I hear is this, the small elves have started industrial action, they are dismayed at the workload involved in banging away on the hammer tone finish to get consistent patterns of finish. It is anticipated once management agree to a 30% increase, production should start flowing again. "Small elves" -- isn't that kinda like "jumbo shrimp"? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted October 26, 2009 Share #40 Posted October 26, 2009 I have a question. Some people report the M9 being too slow in bringing a magnified image on the LCD (Amateur Photographer review, for instance). Even 9 seconds have been reported. The M8 was also slow when you shot DNG + JPG, in writing the images, showing them on the LCD or providing a magnified version. My question is if these reports are correct. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.