pgk Posted November 6, 2009 Share #181 Posted November 6, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) We really need a sticky on DoF and such to eliminate this recurring discussion. Fully agree - it is an oft quoted and thoroughly misunderstood topic. Speaking as a photographer who uses fast wides, more often than not wide open (I'm using a Canon 24/1.4 mostly for its close focus abilities, although the M lenses really do appeal), I am very aware of the differences created by shooting different formats in order to achieve a desired aim. In this I most certainly deviate from the 'accepted standard' CofC, but then I'm shooting 'real world' not theoretical imagery. For me, the M8 remains a superb camera which I will continue to use, knowing and appreciating its strengths and weaknesses. I too am in the camp that thinks that its real undeniable advantage is that I've got it, and it works and delivers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 6, 2009 Posted November 6, 2009 Hi pgk, Take a look here Some M8 advantages. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
mhoersch Posted November 6, 2009 Share #182 Posted November 6, 2009 Look where we've got thanks to Leica's ingenious marketing strategies: people stop raving about the latest Leica product from sheer exhaustion (since it's simply not there to be bought it becomes increasingly difficult to go on raving for weeks about something you have never seen) and are beginning to be just happy to actually have the previous model - with all its faults. And just have a look at the truly deafening silence over at the S2 forum... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Henry Posted November 6, 2009 Share #183 Posted November 6, 2009 "For me, the M8 remains a superb camera which I will continue to use, knowing and appreciating its strengths and weaknesses. I too am in the camp that thinks that its real undeniable advantage is that I've got it, and it works and delivers". Paul Completely agreed with Paul ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Henry Posted November 6, 2009 Share #184 Posted November 6, 2009 and the proof.... inside of the Cathedral of Nantes under rainy day and without sun M8.1 lux 50mm 640 Iso without tripod picture uncorrected Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/100560-some-m8-advantages/?do=findComment&comment=1105989'>More sharing options...
MikeMyers Posted November 7, 2009 Share #185 Posted November 7, 2009 I'll agree with Angelos. The DOF between the M8 and M9 is certainly different, and depending on what you want to achieve, can be considered "better" or "worse". Most of the time, for most of my photos, I'd rather have the wider DOF that the M8 appears to provide. There are times when I'd rather have less, which to me means opening up the lens a bit more. To me, this means having the M8 is an advantage. I suspect it would cost me around $3000 to change cameras so I had an M9. If there were a magic accessory that I could buy for $3,000 that would somehow transform my M8 image into and M9 image (impossible of course, but I'm just using this for an example) would I spend that much for it? No way. To me, it's not at all that big a deal though. It's like with my Nikons. I've still got my D2x with the 10.5mm fisheye lens. I've now also got my D3, which takes my ancient 16mm fisheye lens. Comparing results, they're pretty much identical. This topic is about advantages of the M8 series cameras, and depending on one's needs, the DOF issue certainly can be an advantage to some people. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Henry Posted November 7, 2009 Share #186 Posted November 7, 2009 I'll agree with Angelos. The DOF between the M8 and M9 is certainly different, and depending on what you want to achieve, can be considered "better" or "worse". Most of the time, for most of my photos, I'd rather have the wider DOF that the M8 appears to provide. There are times when I'd rather have less, which to me means opening up the lens a bit more. To me, this means having the M8 is an advantage. I suspect it would cost me around $3000 to change cameras so I had an M9. If there were a magic accessory that I could buy for $3,000 that would somehow transform my M8 image into and M9 image (impossible of course, but I'm just using this for an example) would I spend that much for it? No way. To me, it's not at all that big a deal though. It's like with my Nikons. I've still got my D2x with the 10.5mm fisheye lens. I've now also got my D3, which takes my ancient 16mm fisheye lens. Comparing results, they're pretty much identical. This topic is about advantages of the M8 series cameras, and depending on one's needs, the DOF issue certainly can be an advantage to some people. M8 advantages... Yes I say it for the LUF friends who prefer keeping their M8 and who will buy M9 perhaps later ? As Angelos said and as in every camera , there are advantages and disadvantages. For me M8 is a very good camera and it can again be used during long months and years Kind regards Henry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spersky Posted November 7, 2009 Share #187 Posted November 7, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Only advantages I see is the useful fact that you can get more reach with your lenses on an M8 over an M9. A 50mm becomes a 75mm etc. In addition a person can get awesome digital pictures with a cheaper M8.2. All other presumed advantages are delusional, but they help people sleep better at night so let them have them. One other advantage I forgot to mention. I am on the waiting list for the M9. Meanwhile, the M8 owners are taking beautiful shots on a daily basis. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilfredo Posted November 7, 2009 Share #188 Posted November 7, 2009 Having re-read through the last nine pages, I'm with Nicole on this one; the main benefit of the M8 is, to me at least, is actually having one. I'm relatively new to photography, and am trying to learn, fast. This thread has lost me, though; it's a discussion at a level of science way beyond anything that will help improve the images I produce right now. So, it's been good; but not sure I've learnt much... and I'm off to the photo forum. Darth, I think you would benefit more from the Photo Section of the Leica User Forum than from the endless sometimes ghastly technical gibberish that some of us engage in here. The only way to learn photography is by doing it and experimenting and following your vision. Let your eye take you where you need to go. The M8 will be a great tool in that regard, it remains a very sophisticated photographic instrument. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spersky Posted November 7, 2009 Share #189 Posted November 7, 2009 Wilfredo, Is that link under your name a link to all your photography? The pictures are very amazing. It would seem you do not need any sort of camera ever again based on the results I have seen. Keep what you have. BTW, what black and white conversion do you use? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMyers Posted November 7, 2009 Share #190 Posted November 7, 2009 Only advantages I see is the useful fact that you can get more reach with your lenses on an M8 over an M9. A 50mm becomes a 75mm etc. In addition a person can get awesome digital pictures with a cheaper M8.2. All other presumed advantages are delusional, but they help people sleep better at night so let them have them. One other advantage I forgot to mention. I am on the waiting list for the M9. Meanwhile, the M8 owners are taking beautiful shots on a daily basis. I don't think others would agree with this reasoning. A 50mm lens is still a 50mm lens regardless of which camera you put it on, and the "longer reach" is likely identical to the picture from the M9 cropped to be the same size as the M8. A good photographer will get awesome digital pictures regardless of what camera he uses. The fact that it's an M8 or a M9 doesn't make the pictures any better. Hey, if you think all other advantages are delusional, try to take some infrared photos with both the M8 and M9, and see how "delusional" the difference is. That's not the only reason I got the M8.2, but it was a big part of my decision. Of course, if you don't shoot infrared, it's no longer an advantage - until the day when you want to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted November 7, 2009 Share #191 Posted November 7, 2009 I don't think others would agree with this reasoning.... I do. Using a 50 in lieu of a 75 is quite an advantage as far as size and weight are concerned. Now DoF is wider on the crop cam of course but it is another story. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted November 7, 2009 Share #192 Posted November 7, 2009 I do. Using a 50 in lieu of a 75 is quite an advantage as far as size and weight are concerned. Now DoF is wider on the crop cam of course but it is another story. lct, you love that DOF story don't you but I'm not going there! Re the 50 V's 75 bit, well yes there is a difference obviously, but I not sure it would be measured as an advantage. Which 50 and which 75? My 50 is larger and heavier than my 75. My 75 gets the most use (I think, don't actually count useage ). Just thought I would stir you up a bit while I take the dogs to the beach. Yes, it's a great beach day here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted November 7, 2009 Share #193 Posted November 7, 2009 Funny how it is difficult to state facts in this good forum. 1/ I did not say that DoF is an advantage. I said it is another story. Matter of taste mainly. 2/ Comparing apples to apples, i.e. same apertures of course, all 50 are smaller and lighter than their 75 counterparts. Am i missing something? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicoleica Posted November 7, 2009 Share #194 Posted November 7, 2009 Am I the only one who now believes, (after reading this thread,) that DoF really stands for 'Depth of Feeling!'? So many heated emotions have been vented that I'm sure at least one glacier has melted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicaiste Posted November 7, 2009 Share #195 Posted November 7, 2009 Only advantages I see is the useful fact that you can get more reach with your lenses on an M8 over an M9. A 50mm becomes a 75mm etc. A 50mm becomes rather a 66mm but I got your point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted November 7, 2009 Share #196 Posted November 7, 2009 Previsualization is one of the most important tools in a photographers kit, so why is it that so many of us cannot see the other P{OV. Nicoleica, I will let you know what happened to that iceberg when I return from Antarctica. lct, I have always respected your POV on DOF, and enjoyed the banter over the years. I was referring to the (dim) past with nostalgia. I still think my 50 (Noct) is bigger and heavier than my 75 cron. But you knew that anyway. Ergonomics and ease of use also come into it, including ones own hands and thoughts. It's a complex equation using all this gear optimally. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted November 8, 2009 Share #197 Posted November 8, 2009 If we don't want to compare apples to oranges, the only valid comparisons are 50/2 vs 75/2 or 50/1.4 vs 75/1.4 as far as Leica lenses are concerned. And more generally, all things being equal, 50mm lenses are lighter and smaller than 75mm ones and it is indeed an advantage when size and weight matter IMHO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMyers Posted November 8, 2009 Share #198 Posted November 8, 2009 I do. Using a 50 in lieu of a 75 is quite an advantage as far as size and weight are concerned. Now DoF is wider on the crop cam of course but it is another story. You're not getting that effect because the 50 became a 75; you're getting it because the sensor is smaller. From what I read here, the M9 sensor and the M8 sensor are identical in quality, other than the M9 being larger. So, if you use any lens on the M8, and then put the same lens on an M9, and crop the larger image down to the size of the M8 image, they'll be the same. I know what you're saying, and yes, using a 50mm lens on the M8 does cover a smaller area than on the M9, making it similar to what you'd get with a 75mm lens on the M9 or any full-frame camera, but a 50mm lens will remain a 50mm lens no matter whether you mounted it on a Minox or a 4x5 view camera. Leaving out all the technical stuff though, I agree with you. If you use the M8 (as I do) the 50mm lens certainly does "act" like I'd expect from a 75mm lens from my memory of 35mm film photography, so I had to learn to "think as if I was using a 75mm lens". I'll also agree that to get the same kind of pictures, with the M8 you're using smaller and lighter lenses. In my opinion, For the M8 I think it's better to call a 50mm lens a 75mm equivalent lens though, as no matter what camera you put it on, it's still really a 50mm lens. To me, this isn't an advantage for my M8. I'd rather have full-frame, given the choice, but not at the amount of money it would cost me to change. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted November 8, 2009 Share #199 Posted November 8, 2009 Yes i hear you of course but i prefer avoiding personal considerations as far as possible because we don't compare facts then but subjective preferences and this does not get us anywhere. Now as far as personal tastes are concerned, i too prefer full frame when i can. For me it is a Canon 5D with great R lenses like the pre-apo Summicron 90/2. But when i want to shoot small, i prefer a Summilux, a Summicron or an Elmar 50 with my good old Epsons. Reason why i agree with the previous poster. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryk34 Posted November 11, 2009 Share #200 Posted November 11, 2009 It's interesing to speculate what the M8 versus M9 discussion would look like if by magic Leica found a way to produce the M9 much more efficiently than the M8 and could sell it for US $ 2,500, half the original M8 price, and way below the actual M9 price of $ 7,000. I think my M8 is quite good and I've never had anyof the problems others have encountered, not even back focusing with my 35mm Lux Asph. I've ordered a M9, but the price still bothers me and always will. I know it was a long time ago, but I once bought a new Fiat car for $ 2,400. And it didn't have any flaws. From what I have read, the main advantage of the M9 is the full frame sensor and hence the use of the entire lens, not just part of it.. I almost hate to say it, but that'senough to justify the $ 7,000. Okay, the $ 5,000 M8 "prepared me" for a high price. Once you're used to a 5 in front of the 3 zeros, there's not much difference with a 7. [i actually said that!] Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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