Keith (M) Posted January 13, 2013 Share #1 Posted January 13, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) When I bought my 1957 IIIg just over a year ago, I bought with it a 1951 Elmar 5cm f3.5 (Ser No. 9044xx). Performance of this on Acros 100 and Tri-X has been pleasing but there are times when a wider aperture would be welcome (and to have the aperture adjustment in a convenient location). The f2.8 version (ELMOO) would obviously meet those wishes but in performance terms would it actually be worthwhile? In his Leica Compendium E. Puts is not too complimentary of it's performance at f2.8 but it does become better than the early version at f4 onwards. Comments on typical results at f2.8 welcomed! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 13, 2013 Posted January 13, 2013 Hi Keith (M), Take a look here A Better 5cm Lens for my IIIg?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
andym911 Posted January 13, 2013 Share #2 Posted January 13, 2013 Keith, I dont have experience with the elmar 2.8 as LTM, only in M mount. It bothers me that changing the aperture rotates the barrel and I rarely use it. The only faster 50mm LTM I have is the Summicron 2.0 in LTM.Sure its performance is excellent but it is heavy and does not really compliment the older LTM cameras too well. Have you considered the collapsible Summicron? Am sure others will pitch in here... BTW I don't feel restricted by f3,5 as max aperture but I can imagine some people do. good luck andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith (M) Posted January 13, 2013 Author Share #3 Posted January 13, 2013 Indeed, I have just been looking into the collapsible Summicron (found one for sale classified Exc+) and in the Leica WiKi found this comparison with the rigid version. All very interesting! The collapsible Summicron is circa 100g heavier than my Elmar f3.5, so should not 'unbalance' the IIIg. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcoombs Posted January 13, 2013 Share #4 Posted January 13, 2013 The collapsible Summicron came with my IIIG when I bought it in the 1960's. While I have used other lenses, I always return to this original one, as it's so pleasing in its rendering. I even use it on my M8 occasionally. It certainly will not feel unbalanced on the camera. If you have found a nice example (e.g., no cleaning marks or haze), go for it! Doug Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted January 13, 2013 Share #5 Posted January 13, 2013 I have the 2.8 Elmar as well as the 3.5 Red Scale. I find it a little softer than the 3.5 at 2.8. You can find the same style in an f 3.5 version if the aperture ring is an issue, or go faster as suggested. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted January 13, 2013 Share #6 Posted January 13, 2013 Keith, if you aren't worried about dimension/weight, and want to do a significant leap in term of aperture, my advice is to search for a fine Summarit 1,5 (MUST be fine... but fine items are not rarer than fine collapsible Summicrons imho). Summarit is a BEAUTIFUL lens, fully usable at 1,5 / 2 without flare at with a very pleasant contrast... and at the apertures of an Elmar (3,5 / 4 / 5,6...) it is a very sharp lens. Better to find a late item, with good coating and std E41 filter mount ; also the hood is a slightly complicated issue... but, believe me, is one of the best lenses one can still use on a LTM camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc_braconi Posted January 13, 2013 Share #7 Posted January 13, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Keith, Have you considered the collapsible Summicron? Am sure others will pitch in here... good luck andy The way to go ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB_tx Posted January 13, 2013 Share #8 Posted January 13, 2013 I have two 2.8 Elmars from the 1960s - one LTM and one M mount. For some reason the LTM isn't nearly as sharp as the M sample I have. I doubt if it is because it is LTM - perhaps had poor service at some point, as I know there were diaphragm blades replaced. In any case the one in M mount is very nice. I also used one on an M2 back in the 1960s and had no complaints. I also have a 1948 Summitar (as well as a 1939). Depending on the characteristics you value, the Summitar can be a very nice lens, and much cheaper than a good Summicron. My 48 (coated) is much better than my 39 (uncoated, f12.5 min aperture). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted January 13, 2013 Share #9 Posted January 13, 2013 There's absolutely no difference between the LTM and M versions, your difference in quality can only be down to some issue with your example. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipus Posted January 13, 2013 Share #10 Posted January 13, 2013 Do all collapsible Summicrons have soft glass? I saw this post which is interesting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted January 13, 2013 Share #11 Posted January 13, 2013 Do all collapsible Summicrons have soft glass? I saw this post which is interesting. Yes... is one of the reasons why a collapsible Summicron is not so easy to find in really good conditions... and the coating, too, is worth to be inspected carefully... but if everything is ok... it is always A SUMMICRON and this says all... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
someonenameddavid Posted January 14, 2013 Share #12 Posted January 14, 2013 Yes... is one of the reasons why a collapsible Summicron is not so easy to find in really good conditions... and the coating, too, is worth to be inspected carefully... but if everything is ok... it is always A SUMMICRON and this says all... My first Leica was an M3 with collapsible Summicron. It is so fine I would never need another lens or camera. But it makes you *want* more Leitz lenses. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted January 14, 2013 Share #13 Posted January 14, 2013 Keith, if you want to stay with Leitz lenses, the best options in my view are : - Elmar 2.8: As already pointed out, it is softer at 2.8 than the 3.5 at full aperture, and since you are looking for more speed this lens will not help you much. Also, from personal experience with several copies of both lenses, I find the 3.5 the optically better lens, even stopped down. - Summicron collapsible: If in good shape, still a wonderful lens, and better optically than the 3.5 at all comparable apertures. At full aperture, however, the collapsible is even softer than the 2.8 Elmar, so probably not the ideal lens for you, too. It does improve significantly at 2.8 though. - Summicron rigid LTM: Notably better at full aperture than the collapsible, stopped down almost indistinguishable from the collapsible. The downside is that this lens is very rare and, therefore, pretty expensive. - Summicron current version (non asph.) LTM: Clearly the best lens optically, but somewhat heavy and big on the IIIg. It does block the viewfinder more than either of the previous lenses, especially with the hood extended. - Summarit 1.5/50: A good lens for B&W, but not so for colour photography, as its color rendering is quite muted, due primarily to low contrast. Another thought: What about CV lenses? They did make a 2.0/50mm, which was collapsible in M-mount and non-collapsible in LTM, which is a good, modern lens. They should still be available for reasonable money. With the exception of the 2.8 Elmar (I never liked that lens), I currently own all the above lenses, so my comments are based on years of personal experience Regards, Andy Additional remark: ...You can find the same style in an f 3.5 version if the aperture ring is an issue, .... No, the 2.8 Elmar style aperture ring is not available on LTM lenses, only on M-mount lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith (M) Posted January 14, 2013 Author Share #14 Posted January 14, 2013 Andy and everyone else - my thanks for the feedback/information, lots of food for thought! Does anyone have experience with the Summitar 5cm f2 (SOORE)? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted January 14, 2013 Share #15 Posted January 14, 2013 Additional remark: No, the 2.8 Elmar style aperture ring is not available on LTM lenses, only on M-mount lenses. I didn't realise that, I assumed that the 3.5 would have been changed at the same time the 2.8 was introduced. It's a pity that Leica don't make some lenses in LTM mount. I'm sure a Summarit LTM would sell pretty well, even in black! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted January 14, 2013 Share #16 Posted January 14, 2013 Andy and everyone else - my thanks for the feedback/information, lots of food for thought! Does anyone have experience with the Summitar 5cm f2 (SOORE)? I have one but don't use it due to sticky aperture blades (I will have it serviced one day!) however I did test it out and found it to be rather soft and flare prone. Another option is a Summar f2, but again it is a B&W lens really. It is essential to find a clean unmarked version - soft glass again - but it's a very nice lens for that 'vintage' look. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipus Posted January 14, 2013 Share #17 Posted January 14, 2013 Does anyone have experience with the Summitar 5cm f2 (SOORE)? I am a bit of a Summitar addict Here are some examples. Reading at 20.05, The Hague, Netherlands, 2011 | Flickr - Photo Sharing! Foggy German forest | Flickr - Photo Sharing! Concert photographer | Flickr - Photo Sharing! Rain. The Hague 2012 | Flickr - Photo Sharing! Structure. The Hague 2012 | Flickr - Photo Sharing! Mine is a 1950 ten-blade coated version. It has a very minimum amount of haze so can appear a bit soft (I'll have it cleaned some day but so far I don't find that it affects image quality much). Yes it may flare a bit but even provoked badly it doesn't completely give up: Flaring tractor | Flickr I like its portability very much and the rather classical rendering. I read in Puts's Chronicle that it was designed with colour film in mind but I happily use it both on colour and b/w. I use it equally on my Ms and my II and in either case it results in a very compact camera which is easy to bring along anywhere. At one point I considered switching to the Elmar 2.8 but I find that on film the f2 is really useful to have (esp. with the II; I just have to shoot at 1/20th indoors an all's well) even though the Elmar would perhaps be a sharper lens. Best of all, the Summitar is quite easy to find in good condition, and for very reasonable money, because there are usually lots on the market at any given point in time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB_tx Posted January 14, 2013 Share #18 Posted January 14, 2013 Just for reference, here are 3 of the lenses suggested above that I think fit the IIIf very well. The 2.8 Elmar is a natural; the Voigtlander 2.0 Heliar looks like it collapses, but it really doesn't. The nickle finish looks great. The Heliar performs better than I'd expect of this design pushed to 2.0, but it does have significant focus-shift stopped down. The 1.8 Canon is small and handles very well. I don't have enough results from it yet to say how performance compares, but it "feels" the best when taking pictures. I also have the 1.4 Canon of this style, but it does block quite a bit of the IIIf finder. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/196056-a-better-5cm-lens-for-my-iiig/?do=findComment&comment=2214618'>More sharing options...
wizard Posted January 14, 2013 Share #19 Posted January 14, 2013 ... I assumed that the 3.5 would have been changed at the same time the 2.8 was introduced. It's a pity that Leica don't make some lenses in LTM mount. I'm sure a Summarit LTM would sell pretty well, even in black! Well, they did change the 3.5 at about the time the 2.8 was in the works, but only so for the M-mount version. The LTM version of the 3.5 stayed as we all know it until the very end of its production. And yes, I would love Leica to market a special series of LTM lenses. My favourite would be the newly computed 3.5/50 they used in the 0 series replica, albeit in a chrome mount similar to the original Elmar's mount. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB_tx Posted January 14, 2013 Share #20 Posted January 14, 2013 OK, had to show a couple other options. The 1.4 Canon is a very good FAST choice, but does block more of the finder. The 1.5 Voigtlander Nokton Asph is the best performing fast LTM lens I've tried, but is just too big to be fun to use on a III series Leica. Even the back DOF ring blocks part of the IIIf finder! I use this often on my M9, which is why it has the red-dot added. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/196056-a-better-5cm-lens-for-my-iiig/?do=findComment&comment=2214634'>More sharing options...
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