Spiller interview in Welt Online

[ho_co]

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In his newest article (Blog), Erwin Puts mentions the recent interview Rudolf Spiller gave Die Welt (Leica-Chef: "Die Leidensfähigkeit unserer Kunden ist hoch"—German language, of course; Google Translate’s English version is at Google Translate).

 

 

A couple points strike me:

 

1) In Mr Spiller’s response to the first question, he defines Leica’s customer base as (paraphrased): First, the collectors. Second, the tech-savvy who want high quality in a digital full-frame camera. Third, ambitious photographers who want the Leica Red Dot, and want to show they can afford it.

 

2) Leidensfähigkeit can be translated as ‘endurance’ or as ‘ability to suffer.’ Google’s translation uses the latter in its formulation of the second question, and the former in Mr Spiller’s response. [My comment: A bit of dry humor there when literally translated: “Yes, our customers are able to suffer a lot.”]

 

3) In that same response, Mr Spiller says the delay in M9 delivery results from the fact that demand for the camera was 40% higher than Leica expected. In the following response he continues that “We’re working overtime and on Saturdays, when we have sufficient materials. Behind our production is a world-wide delivery chain, which can’t increase its quantities at the drop of a hat.”

 

4) Welt Online twice remarks that in the digital age, the M9 will soon be obsolete and will lose value. [My comment: Mr Puts’ article picks up on Mr Spiller’s response that the M9 will still be a functional camera for years, because of its high quality of engineering design and construction.]

 

5) To the question of ‘what’s next,’ Mr Spiller responds in part: “It is no longer just a question of making a photograph, but of sharing pictures and memories with others…. Are there more intelligent methods than storing pictures in albums? How does one find specific images again?”

 

 

 

I’m pleased by the openness of the explanation of why filling the M9 delivery pipeline has been so slow.

 

I’m bothered by being assigned the role of ‘wanting a Leica and wanting to be able to show I can afford it.’

 

I’m concerned by what may stand behind Mr Spiller’s description of the route to the future in point 5 above.

 

 

 

Even though I’ve pulled all these points out of context, I think my take on them is still valid.

 

 

 

Any comments?

[Steve Ash]

I think this interview is not good for translations as it can easily be misunderstood especially when it is partly paraphrased. Nevertheless, I am surprised that a CEO talks that kind of blunt. This is only a little bit excusable when you think of that he has become part of the organization only shortly and that he is the guy who is mostly lied to.

 

I am more interested in words of Mr. Daniel who is much more important for the brand than the CEO for the time being.

 

Regards

Steve

[ArtZ]

World Online: Mr. Spiller, one of your new products, the Leica M9, which costs 5500 Euro. Who is so much money on a camera?

 

Rudolf Spiller: First, there are the collectors who buy any M model, which we bring to the market. There are tech-savvy customers who seek a most significant camera with a digital sensor in the full format. And there are the ambitious photographer who want not just any camera, but one with the red Leica dot. They want the best quality and they want to show that they can afford it

 

No comment... but where's photography in all that? In fact, very disappointing to hear from Leica that Leica M cameras are just cameras for snobs (and rich people)

[stunsworth]

Leica has always appealed to people because of its cost and exclusivity, but that isn't the only reason he gives for people buying Leicas. Personally I'm much more annoyed with collectors who buy the cameras and lenses with no intention of ever using them. That to me is a waste of fine engineering.

[Per P.]

I would also recommend being very cautious with interpretations without a full read of the text in German. Especially since the interview is relatively brief. I am probably biased, but in my opinion he seems quite well balanced. For example, he is making the GENERAL observation that a strong brand attachment tends to lead to a higher willingness to make sacrifices. Many of us are evidence since IR filters, waiting lists, prices, etc. are certainly noticed and complained about - but they don't deter us.

 

~ Per.

[wlaidlaw]

With the proviso made by others, that something may be lost in translation, his description of Leica buyers is pretty patronising. I somewhat suspect a case of starting his mouth prior to engaging his brain. I cannot imagine the owner being best pleased and I can envisage a rather sticky meeting ensuing.

 

I don't see many collectors buying an M9, which will be obsolescent in 5 years or so and most likely have dead, unobtainable batteries or irreparable electronics in 10 to 15 years. A lizard skin covered titanium MP is much more their scene. I do have a small collection of older rangefinder cameras but they are all users and are used, not sitting in a display cabinet.

 

Wilson

[rosuna]

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I don't like Mr. Spiller's responses.

 

1) The message seems to be: "Don't expect technology/features at the same level of the competition. Don't expect prices at the same level of the competition, either. The unique brand means there is not direct competition. People wants to buy Leica, the brand." The Pentax 645D versus S2 case illustrates this approach. It is a mistake. Veblen goods don't exist in the electronics industry. As Wilson says, watches and mechanical cameras are a different thing.

 

2) They know Leica M cameras and lenses had problems (reliability, manufacturing, tolerances... whatever). They know this level of failures/problems would have been intolerable in products of other brands. So we have (1) products with conservative technology, high prices, and reliability problems, and the brand cover all this. People will pay for the brand. In my opinion the brand value will be affected.

 

3) Then, the M9 has been an unexpected success. I think they believed the M9 would be bought by a part of M8 owners and film M users. I would like if 2) is having an effect on sales.

 

4) This is true, and point 3) suggests Leica was working already in something different when the M9 was presented. The M9 seems to be like a "transition product", some kind of M8.3 camera.

 

5) It sounds like a website for sharing and storing Leica pictures to me, much like Hasselblad's "pro" site, etc. Some kind of "Leica owners club". This comes to reinforce the point 1).

 

Considering all the points, it is like a renunciation to be competitive and innovative. This is the classic approach of Leica: conservative and brand oriented. Leica's mystique is based on the role the Leicas played many time ago, mostly in the reportage photography of the XX century. They have to forget the collectors and concentrate on the real photographers. Again, the Leica S2 versus Pentax 645D is a good example. The S2 would have been a small revolution in the digital market with a target price similar (even if a bit higher) to the Pentax's.

 

R.

[nhabedi]

I'm a native German speaker and I also have to say that I was rather disappointed by his first reply. Maybe he didn't put it very well, but I was almost offended by what he said because I don't think I don't fit in any of these categories. (I don't have an M9, but I had an M8.2 and I still have and use two film Ms.) I'm not a collector, I'm not a tech nerd, and I don't want to show that I can afford a Leica. (In fact, I bought almost all of my Leica stuff used.)

 

I'm a photography amateur (in the real sense of the word which derives from "love") and I use Leica rangefinder cameras because I think they are the best tools for what I like to do. Leica (Leitz) have for a long time tried to deliver exactly that - the best tools for a specific job. They lost this around the 80s when they thought they could rescue the company by not catering to (professional) photographers anymore but rather by finding other markets (the "luxury" segment). The M9 and the S2 obviously are very good - albeit expensive - tools and it seems that under Dr. Kaufmann the company is getting back to where it once was. Still, what Mr. Spiller said makes me think that at least some people in Solms have the wrong mindset...

[rosuna]

I would like to know if 2) is having an effect on sales.

[stunsworth]

I really can't see the problem in saying that your buyers are either...

 

1. Collectors

2. People wanting a high quality product

3. People who buy because of the brand name and reputation

 

Maybe it's unfashionable for CEOs to speak honestly these days, but that seems a pretty fair summary of the reasons people buy a high end product - whether it's a camera, a car, or a h-fi.

[nhabedi]

I really can't see the problem in saying that your buyers are either...

 

1. Collectors

2. People wanting a high quality product

3. People who buy because of the brand name and reputation

 

Maybe it's unfashionable for CEOs to speak honestly these days, but that seems a pretty fair summary of the reasons people buy a high end product - whether it's a camera, a car, or a h-fi.

 

That would have been kind of OK for me although I would have liked to see the second point first. But that's not what he said. He described the second group as "technikbegeisterte Kunden" which translates to customers being enthusiastic about technical stuff. My point was that he failed to mention customers who buy these cameras to take photos.

 

I just returned from New York where I had the pleasure to meet and talk to a great photographer who is just working on an interesting book project. (Here's her website, BTW.) She takes great photos and she happens to use M8s and M9s for that. But she's not a collector, she's not a tech nerd, and she doesn't care about the brand's reputation. In Mr. Spiller's enumeration, she doesn't appear.

[Ed_K]

I wonder how the future holds as he stated in 5) .... sharing like hardware transmitting images to your computer similar to the wireless SD card or better, or similar live internet update like the "cloud" in Apple service or better

[russell]

Spiller spilled the beans, eh?

Well I'd bet he gets shown the door just like Lee was.

 

Who knows, might be for the best

[Dan States]

I wonder how the future holds as he stated in 5) .... sharing like hardware transmitting images to your computer similar to the wireless SD card or better, or similar live internet update like the "cloud" in Apple service or better

 

 

I'd say the man knows his customer base pretty well but needs to learn when not to tell the truth. Take a few minutes to view the Leica M9 flikr group and you will see that the vast majority of the images loaded are by people mostly enamored with their camera, not photography itself. Hope you like pets cars and kids:

 

Flickr: Leica M9

[ho_co]

I think that's what bothers me. At first glance, some of us feel we don't fit into the groups mentioned.

 

I'm always impressed by the Leitz/Leica technology, but I buy the equipment because it feels right, fits me, and does what it's supposed to do: make good pictures. And because I can't afford to buy a Leica and a lens every year or so, I sometimes feel out of place, even embarrassed, to be labeled a "Leica user." I bought the camera for what it is, not to show people that I can afford it. In fact, I can't afford it, despite the fact that I think the camera is worth the money.

 

That probably means I fit group 2, the Technikbegeisterte.

 

When all is said and done, I think Mr Spiller's enumeration is correct. I just don't like seeing where I fit in the list.

 

 

As for the future: Leica has always been able to surprise us with its innovations, so I guess there's no reason yet to worry about the company's future course. But the implications of the route expressed do leave me a little apprehensive.

 

Welt Online asks, 'What does that have to do with Leica?' Mr Spiller's response is that Leica's concern for its customers will set it apart from the competition. It's a perfect answer, even if it seems off-hand.

 

 

In other words, the more I think about the interview (and the German is definitely subtler than the auto translation), the more I think it's excellent. I'm bothered more by trying to draw the consequences than by what Mr Spiller said.

 

Keep in mind also, it was this interview that prompted Erwin Puts to write his latest clear and very positive column, "Obsolescence."

 

 

Conclusion: I think Mr Spiller has said a lot in a very short space about a very positive Leica future. It's worthwhile to consider it in detail, but to do so from the German, not from the Google translation, which is very approximate.

[giordano]

And because I can't afford to buy a Leica and a lens every year or so, I sometimes feel out of place, even embarrassed, to be labeled a "Leica user." I bought the camera for what it is, not to show people that I can afford it. In fact, I can't afford it, despite the fact that I think the camera is worth the money.

 

That probably means I fit group 2, the Technikbegeisterte.

 

When all is said and done, I think Mr Spiller's enumeration is correct. I just don't like seeing where I fit in the list.

 

Maybe you don't belong in the list. I know I don't. I've used Leicas since 1969, barring a few years in the 90s, but all I've ever bought new is two cameras (Digilux 2 and M8), one lens (Summarit 75) and various filters and accessories. So despite being a Leica user, I'm not the sort of customer a company should base its strategy on.

[lct]

...5) To the question of ‘what’s next,’ Mr Spiller responds in part: “It is no longer just a question of making a photograph, but of sharing pictures and memories with others…”...

Lack of imagination for cameras at Solms?

[jaapv]

Phew - a few rather condensed remarks, filtered though the notepad of a journalist, paraphrased by an end editor, and here we are spilling our minds on the psych's couch....

[wlaidlaw]

Cloud computing and storage only works when you have really high speed internet; i.e. not yet for most people. I have a maximum upload speed of 375kbps (my down is about 1.9mbps) and for someone living out in the country, I have to consider myself as being lucky to have as good as that. I had to send three M9 36.4 MB uncompressed DNG's to Phase One earlier this week, so that they could try something. It took about 35 minutes just to send 3 images. That is not workable for general cloud/image use.

 

Wilson

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[Guest BigSplash]

I suppose Spiller to some extent has been given a hand of cards defined before he arrived, and he probably has little wiggle room given Dr Kaufmann's vision and heavy involvement in the strategy and funding. Spiller is not as visible as either Dr Kaufmann or S.Lee nor does he seem to articulate a vision of where he is trying to position the company...I see that as a pity, and weak.

 

He says that the current client base is as described. While some of us may wish to disagree as I for one do not fit the model he fails to define what client base he wants to address in say 5 years. Worse he appears to be quite happy that M10 will be bought by rich snobs, and those that buy every Leica M ever made. He does not say I am going to eat into DSLR market share because people want XXXXX that only Leica can provide.

 

He admits that M9 fcst was misjudged by 40%, which shows how out of touch his team is with the market. He does not explain when the delinquent backlog will disappear..he simply says that they are working weekends and are at the mercy of their supply chain..........I hope Dr Kaufmann is not that laid back, and Stefan D. is trying to avoid future 40% market demand glitches, plus is getting the supply chain fixed.

 

I agree that M9 seems to be a stop gap product and it will be interesting to see what they announce at Photokina. Hopefully a M10 and a platic low cost FF "M" camera.