SpiritShooter Posted September 5, 2012 Share #1 Posted September 5, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have been reading as many webpages and I can, reviewing the posted images and listening to what folks have to say about their impressions and feelings about the new Monochrom. I have one on order, but I am concerned enough to wonder if these are serious issues without letting the internet hype cloud my judgement. From what I can see, the following are some of the hot buttons that have raised flags; 1. Significant aliasing, especially with fine linear detail. 2. Abrupt highlight clipping that creates very harsh edges without a soft/blended transition. 3. Dark blooming along areas of moderate or heavy contrast changes. What are you thoughts? Are these item being blown out of proportion? Are any of you who have this body on order re-thinking your decisions? Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 5, 2012 Posted September 5, 2012 Hi SpiritShooter, Take a look here Monochrom - Image Samples and Thoughts. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Photoskeptic Posted September 5, 2012 Share #2 Posted September 5, 2012 (edited) Well, I too, can only go by what I see on the internet and for sure jpegs are a handicap. However, I have seen nothing that makes me want to give up my M8.2. I was number 30 on the list with my dealer and notified him to cancel my pre-order. I think there is a good possibility that my number would have never come up, anyway. Edited September 5, 2012 by Photoskeptic addition Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill W Posted September 5, 2012 Share #3 Posted September 5, 2012 Well, I too, can only go by what I see on the internet and for sure jpegs are a handicap. However, I have seen nothing that makes me want to give up my M8.2. I was number 30 on the list with my dealer and notified him to cancel my pre-order. I think there is a good possibility that my number would have never come up, anyway. When you say your number would have never been reached, are you saying or assuming there will only be a limited number of the Monochrom? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photoskeptic Posted September 5, 2012 Share #4 Posted September 5, 2012 (edited) Bill, certain individuals have claimed this and I think it was intimated by Leica at one time on their website (things may have changed). If you read the very long thread started by "algrove" on the MM it is mentioned several times (yes, and I'm one of the guilty parties). Doesn't make it true - I'm just saying... And I wasn't the first person to pick up on this. For those wishing to try an MM before parting with your hard earned money, LensRentals has at least one, but that greedy Lloyd Chambers has snapped it up for three weeks! A phone call could at least get you on the list. I would not be adverse to trying one out . Edited September 5, 2012 by Photoskeptic modified Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted September 5, 2012 Share #5 Posted September 5, 2012 1. Significant aliasing, especially with fine linear detail. If you combine a very sharp lens with a sensor that doesn’t compomise sharpness either, aliasing is the inevitable result. Similarly when graphics applications apply antialiasing so oblique lines appear more smooth, this incurs a loss of contrast and sharpness. It’s one or the other. 2. Abrupt highlight clipping that creates very harsh edges without a soft/blended transition. All sensors are suffering from this. The raw-based histogram of the M Monochrom gives you more control over highlight clipping, though. 3. Dark blooming along areas of moderate or heavy contrast changes. You mean halo artefacts from sharpening? When an image is quite sharp to begin with (as pictures taken with the M Monochrom usually are), even a moderate amount of sharpening will introduce artefacts. The demosaicing step required by sensors with a colour filter array yields soft images needing some sharpening even when there is no antialiasing filter. With the M Monochrom there is neither an antialiasing filter nor interpolation, so the image captured by the sensor is – within the limits of its pixel count – just as sharp as the optical image created by the lens. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill W Posted September 5, 2012 Share #6 Posted September 5, 2012 None of the dealers I have asked concerning palcing an order have indicated this and they are long time Leica dealers and do a lot of business. I can only asume they would know but who knows!!!!!!! If I get one great, if not Oh well....I can live without it. Just don't tell my wife how much that would save us..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted September 5, 2012 Share #7 Posted September 5, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) If you want one you will get one (it may take a couple of months, though). Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photoskeptic Posted September 5, 2012 Share #8 Posted September 5, 2012 Just don't tell my wife how much that would save us..... Bill, surely you have a special account for your photography needs? I hide all sorts of stuff from my wife that way. Cheers and I hope you get your camera a-ok. John (the anti-Longhorn) 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tina Manley Posted September 5, 2012 Share #9 Posted September 5, 2012 I've posted some first experimental photos and comparisons here: Leica M Mono Photo Gallery by Tina Manley at pbase.com Not that you can tell a lot from the jpegs! I can tell you that I couldn't be happier with my MM! The raw files are amazing with so much detail in both shadows and highlights. I'm still learning how to meter with it. Very different from the M9. High ISOs are no longer a limiting factor! Tina 7 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiritShooter Posted September 5, 2012 Author Share #10 Posted September 5, 2012 You mean halo artefacts from sharpening? When an image is quite sharp to begin with (as pictures taken with the M Monochrom usually are), even a moderate amount of sharpening will introduce artefacts. I don't think it is a sharpening artifact. I saw this today on a sample M image. I have clipped and cropped the image so you can have a look...there seems to be a dark shadow around the wires and more pronounced about the street light itself. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/187312-monochrom-image-samples-and-thoughts/?do=findComment&comment=2105961'>More sharing options...
ymc226 Posted September 5, 2012 Share #11 Posted September 5, 2012 If you want one you will get one (it may take a couple of months, though). Thanks Michael. I already bought a second Really Right Stuff L plate with grip, B&W filters, extra SD cards and an extra battery in anticipation. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted September 5, 2012 Share #12 Posted September 5, 2012 I don't think it is a sharpening artifact. What else could it be? Sharpening is notorious for precisely that effect and I am not aware of another phenomenon that could possibly be causing it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfgang Chuck Posted September 5, 2012 Share #13 Posted September 5, 2012 Well, I too, can only go by what I see on the internet and for sure jpegs are a handicap. However, I have seen nothing that makes me want to give up my M8.2. I was number 30 on the list with my dealer and notified him to cancel my pre-order. I think there is a good possibility that my number would have never come up, anyway. Just wondering who your dealer is. I am in the Charleston area as well and there does not appear to be a Leica dealer anywhere in SC now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photoskeptic Posted September 5, 2012 Share #14 Posted September 5, 2012 Just wondering who your dealer is. I am in the Charleston area as well and there does not appear to be a Leica dealer anywhere in SC now. Chuck, I use Tamarkin. Mail order is easy and NO TAX! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianv Posted September 5, 2012 Share #15 Posted September 5, 2012 (edited) I don't think it is a sharpening artifact. I saw this today on a sample M image. I have clipped and cropped the image so you can have a look...there seems to be a dark shadow around the wires and more pronounced about the street light itself. I believe that you are seeing the left side of the tubular arm of the street light that is illuminated, the lower portion is dark as it is in the shadow. It looks like structure, not an artifact. With an image from a mosaic filter, this "fine line" would be interpolated out. Look at the building to the right, you can see the sides of the structure are illuminated, at about the same angle as the street light. Would be interesting to use a telephoto on the same objects. Also, look at the ring joints of the arm of the street light, you can get an idea of the angle of the lighting. Edited September 5, 2012 by brianv 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 5, 2012 Share #16 Posted September 5, 2012 I don't think it is a sharpening artifact. I saw this today on a sample M image. I have clipped and cropped the image so you can have a look...there seems to be a dark shadow around the wires and more pronounced about the street light itself. People tend to forget that raw converters are geared towards Mos sensors and tend to have default capture sharpening which must be switched off (advisable for the M9, imperative for the MM) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted September 5, 2012 Share #17 Posted September 5, 2012 I saw this today on a sample M image. I have clipped and cropped the image so you can have a look...there seems to be a dark shadow around the wires and more pronounced about the street light itself. There is no shadow around the wires that I could detect. The transition from wire to sky is a bit soft, but I think that's most likely a compression artefact introduced by the jpeg image format. The lamp arm is a bit brighter on the left hand side because it is brightened by the sun. The right hand side appears to have a black border at some places, but this is an electrical cable running in parallel to the arm. I used a small software called Image Analyzer which makes a graph plotting the brightness along an arbitrary straight line. You'd see borders around objects right away at that scale. The black borders might be optical illusions. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted September 5, 2012 Share #18 Posted September 5, 2012 Just wondering who your dealer is. I am in the Charleston area as well and there does not appear to be a Leica dealer anywhere in SC now. Wolfgang- Another US store is the Leica Store in Washington, DC. Eric is the Manager. As for few MM availability. In the Leica Store-Munich today I was told they received 4 MM and of course all were sold to wait list customers. They expect more later this month. As for the APO 50, they expect to see the first one(s) in November. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianv Posted September 5, 2012 Share #19 Posted September 5, 2012 (edited) The black borders might be optical illusions. When I look at the screen close-up, the grey of the sky is uniform and meets the street light, no dark line. At a distance, sometimes the transition looks darker. I also believe it is an optical illusion (artifact of vision) and not the image itself. Spatial Gradients. As for availability- Leica is very good at announcing limited production cameras, and letting everyone know how many will be produced. No such announcement with the M Monochrom, every indication that this camera will be manufactured until everyone that wants to buy one will have one. Edited September 5, 2012 by brianv Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bybrett Posted September 5, 2012 Share #20 Posted September 5, 2012 The 50 APO was originally destined to be a limited edition, but not the Monochrom. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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