yanidel Posted September 3, 2009 Share #1 Posted September 3, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) This is a counterpoint to another tread on 100 reasons to buy a M9. As the introduction of the first digital M full frame looms, many of us have started questioning whether they will "upgrade" or not. I admit that I am a "technophile", I like the latest stuff (I change mobile phones too often), so just based on this, temptation level is high. Nevertheless, when thinking about practical things and impact on my photography (which is non-professional), there are indeed a lot of reasons that favours sticking with the M8 and not buy the M9. Here are the main ones I can think of. What about yours ? 1) let's face it, €5500 is quite some money. It is not so much the cash outlay (I can sell stuff) that bothers me but the idea of strolling around with a camera worth that much money. I like to travel and take it everywhere. I don't want my outings spoiled with worries about how to secure my camera. 2) UV/IR filters : they protect my lenses as I often don't use hoods. In the crowdy Paris streets, my camera gets hit every once in a while, the filters have taken the hit and the glass remains pristine. If I do get a reflection, most of the times I can remove it in post processing. 3) the crop factor is an advantage on the long side. My 60mm Hex becomes a wonderful and quite compact 80mm 1.2. On full frame I would either have to buy a heavy weight 75 Lux or slower 90mm F2 (and heavy too). One of the main advantages of M is size and weight, these two lenses don't fit that criteria in my opinion. 4) corner performance. Wide-open, there is a decrease of resolution with a 24mm Elmarit at F2.8 on the M8. It will show more on full frame, same potentially for vignetting. This will be solved by stopping down but you might lose some of the wide open look so characteristic to some lenses. I also imagine that the shortcomings of some lenses will show more (CV25 and 28 for example). 5) the widest lens I use is 24mm for 35mm equivalent. F2.8 is enough during the day (most of my shooting conditions). At night I find that I use the reduced FOV of the 35mm Lux to avoid large composing with large "dark areas". I don't do much interior shooting. So the extra stops of the M9 would not serve in 95% of my pictures. 6) 1/8000th speed. It allows you to go down to F2-2.8 on a sunny day. 7) 10mp is enough to print great A3's. I don't need to print bigger. Yes, it doesn't allow much cropping but if you crop a lot, that means you have to improve your technique first and compose better. It will be cheaper than buying 18mpx Also, I am not sure the extra resolution of 18mp is detectable on a A3 print. 8) I upload backups of my pictures to Flickr. Full size JPG around 4MB in average. It can take all night to do so. Files double the size will mean even more trouble as well as more storage space on computer. 9) Processing and zooming (I use lightroom) of 10MB dng files takes some time on Lightroom. Bigger files will take more time. 10) I have never used my lenses on a full format sensor. So while some had to learn using a 28mm instead of a 35mm. I would have to do the reverse (and buy a 50mm Lux + 90mm F2) 11) Need to in invest in new SD cards and additional batteries. 12) The 60mm Hex is a perfect match for 50mm framelines. It won't be usable on the M9, I would have to sell a lens that I like a lot. 13) Like any camera, the sensor of the M8 gives a specific look. I personnally like it a lot. Not sure the M9 will retain this look. 14) I find the menu system to be simple and good enough. Auto-ISO solves 95% of my problems and I don't think it is slow to change the settings through the menu. (I belong to the Playstation generation, believe me it is much trickier to fake a quick and lob the keeper with the joystick buttons in Pro Evolution Soccer ) 15) shutter noise : not a big issue for me. Once the picture is taken, I usually don't mind being spotted. So to me, looking at what is maybe a self-convincing exercise, there are many reasons why the M8 is "great" enough. The M9 is tempting but I feel it won't add much to my photography applications and capability. I have not yet fully mastered the M8 but have now a good connection with it, why start over now ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 Hi yanidel, Take a look here 100 reasons to stay with the M8. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
mat_mcdermott Posted September 3, 2009 Share #2 Posted September 3, 2009 This is a counterpoint to another tread on 100 reasons to buy a M9. As the introduction of the first digital M full frame looms, many of us have started questioning whether they will "upgrade" or not. I admit that I am a "technophile", I like the latest stuff (I change mobile phones too often), so just based on this, temptation level is high. Nevertheless, when thinking about practical things and impact on my photography (which is non-professional), there are indeed a lot of reasons that favours sticking with the M8 and not buy the M9. Here are the main ones I can think of. What about yours ? 1) let's face it, €5500 is quite some money. It is not so much the cash outlay (I can sell stuff) that bothers me but the idea of strolling around with a camera worth that much money. I like to travel and take it everywhere. I don't want my outings spoiled with worries about how to secure my camera. Insurance covers the camera + Your average thief probably doesn't know the difference between the value of an M9 v M8 v M6. 2) UV/IR filters : they protect my lenses as I often don't use hoods. In the crowdy Paris streets, my camera gets hit every once in a while, the filters have taken the hit and the glass remains pristine. If I do get a reflection, most of the times I can remove it in post processing. Use a normal UV filter. Much less expensive than a UV/IR filter, should the lens take a hit and break the filter. 4) corner performance. Wide-open, there is a decrease of resolution with a 24mm Elmarit at F2.8 on the M8. It will show more on full frame, same potentially for vignetting. This will be solved by stopping down but you might lose some of the wide open look so characteristic to some lenses. I also imagine that the shortcomings of some lenses will show more (CV25 and 28 for example). Used the 24/2.8 for a long time on film and resolution in the corners was fine in practice. 10) I have never used my lenses on a full format sensor. So while some had to learn using a 28mm instead of a 35mm. I would have to do the reverse (and buy a 50mm Lux + 90mm F2) Many of us had to do this in reverse with the M8; welcome to our world. 11) Need to in invest in new SD cards and additional batteries. Batteries, maybe (we don't know if the batteries with the M8 will be interchangeable. SD cards, why? Only perhaps if you have so few already that the added file size will max out your cards. Personally, and I imagine this is true for many people, I've got probably three times as many as I use on an average shoot. So to me, looking at what is maybe a self-convincing exercise, there are many reasons why the M8 is "great" enough. The M9 is tempting but I feel it won't add much to my photography applications and capability. I have not yet fully mastered the M8 but have now a good connection with it, why start over now ? Very good, though I suspect there'll be enough continuity with the M8 that no one will be starting over with an M9. Personally, barring as yet unknown technical issues (fingers crossed), the only reason not to go for the M9 over the M8, from stats seen on paper, is if it's priced out of your budget. Quite possible for many, including me. I'll have to see how €5500 converts into a USD price (is that VAT-included...) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukaK Posted September 3, 2009 Share #3 Posted September 3, 2009 The elephant in the room to me is ISO. It's been said and argued over and over again, but personally I HATE, repeat, HATE the ISO range of the m8. It's limited my shooting to sunset, and when pushed further than this the grain destroys my shots. I honestly think if this is fixed in the m9, my camera worries for the next decade are over. I'll sell all my canon gear and buy two m9's if I could find a great telephoto to match my 70-200 2.8 IS for low light event shooting. The m8 is a great camera, but there's no harm in upgrading if budget and reason are within range. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adli Posted September 3, 2009 Share #4 Posted September 3, 2009 For me it would be two reasons: 1) Cost 2) On the M8, my 75 cron ASPH is a great portrait lens. With the M9, I have to use my larger and much heavier 90 cron preASPH to achive the same effect. On the other hand, with the M9, my 18 will be a real 18 and my 28 a real 28. This in combination with better resolution and better ISO/noice handling will more than outweigh 2). So it's redused to a cost issue :-) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander † Posted September 3, 2009 Share #5 Posted September 3, 2009 Assuming the M9 is all that we expect it will come down to a cost issue. The sensor should be better, the iso performance better, 18Mp is better than 10Mp all things being equal. It will be great for me to see my WATE and 12mm CV and other lenses on full frame. No IR filters should also add to the acceptability of the M9. If the M9 is as seems promised then I expect that it will fly off the dealers shelves. I will wait just a little to see what happens and in the meantime continue with my M8s Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leica007 Posted September 3, 2009 Share #6 Posted September 3, 2009 If the M9 is as seems promised then I expect that it will fly off the dealers shelves. I will wait just a little to see what happens and in the meantime continue with my M8s Jeff Only if Leica prices it right. otherwise, it will be a Nikon D3X - a slow mover in a depressing world market. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander † Posted September 3, 2009 Share #7 Posted September 3, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Only if Leica prices it right. otherwise, it will be a Nikon D3X - a slow mover in a depressing world market. Somehow I dont feel that the Nikon D3x is good comparison. The D3x was on paper a very high price for Nikon users. It came straight in at more than the Canon 1ds3 and much more than the Sony. At 5500 euros many Leica lovers are thinking that is a reasonable price hike over the M8.2. If it is higher than the 5500 expectation well that would be bad for Leica. Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leica007 Posted September 3, 2009 Share #8 Posted September 3, 2009 well, my understanding was that Leica wanted more lovers, wanted to become more promiscuous:D, attract the pros - not just with their S2, but cast a wide net as the advert on youtube proclaimed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilfredo Posted September 3, 2009 Share #9 Posted September 3, 2009 (edited) Check-out: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/96345-september-9th-draws-near.html Edited September 3, 2009 by wilfredo Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
noah_addis Posted September 3, 2009 Share #10 Posted September 3, 2009 The main reason is that someone need to stick with the M8 so I can sell my two M8 bodies at a decent price! Seriously, it's a great camera and will continue to take high quality photographs no matter what new models are introduced. If you're on a budget, or tend to like medium/longer lenses, and shoot mostly in good light, it's still an ideal camera. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
offshore Posted September 3, 2009 Share #11 Posted September 3, 2009 If the M9 won't shoot color, b&w, IR b&w with IR filter and color IR with filter it stays on the dealers shelf, my trusty M8 (almost three years of constant service without a glich) stays in my bag. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
!Nomad64 Posted September 3, 2009 Share #12 Posted September 3, 2009 Here's my 2c: 1) I'm very happy with my M8 (not 8.2) and I do not believe she'll stop working once the M9 will be publicly available. 2) I was never an early adopter. I wouldn't throw in € 5,500 (and sell whatever I can to gather them together) just to discover that .0 version is flawed or has minor quirks and that I have to return it to Leitz for fixing. This said, I'm drooling out of curiosity... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erg Posted September 3, 2009 Share #13 Posted September 3, 2009 T6) 1/8000th speed. It allows you to go down to F2-2.8 on a sunny day. I agree on the shutter speed issue. I'd also like to add that I prefer the indestructible gunmetal black chrome of the M8 compared to the black painting of the M8.2/M9. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Ash Posted September 3, 2009 Share #14 Posted September 3, 2009 1) My M8.2 still holds one additional year of warranty which I paid for. 2) It would be a very nice second body with the main use with my summicron 75 Aph. 3) I still love it too much. Regards Steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcoombs Posted September 3, 2009 Share #15 Posted September 3, 2009 Simple answer: 1) I already own the M8 and am used to it now. 2) It helps me take good pictures, and will continue to do so. Doug Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfleica Posted September 3, 2009 Share #16 Posted September 3, 2009 the 8000th sec is useful to me. got very used to the focal lengths too (15/28/50/90). let's see how good the m9 is, but i suspect that if it can nail 1250-2500iso noise, then it's going to be very tempting. if not, i will pass this time around (unless there is an otherwise big step in IQ at lower speeds). i think this is a very nice place to be right now for RF users Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted September 3, 2009 Share #17 Posted September 3, 2009 Simple answer: 1) I already own the M8 and am used to it now. 2) It helps me take good pictures, and will continue to do so. Doug DITTO : no reason to hurry up; will M9 result a big leap over M8 ? Well, someday can be I'll quietly will start to consider it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
swamiji Posted September 3, 2009 Share #18 Posted September 3, 2009 (edited) Isn't it nice that life is full of choices... I choose both. I will keep my M8 for what is good for and an M9 for what it's good for.... and while I am at it... I'll keep my M7 as well, just for fun. An example, I am working on a project, it requires a 16mm lens... a true 16mm lens... the M8 does not make it... however coupled with my Viso and Tylet 560... the M8 shines.... Edited September 3, 2009 by swamiji Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtZ Posted September 3, 2009 Share #19 Posted September 3, 2009 Because my two M8 have travelled so many times to Solms, I could never get rid of them... such intense life they had... I simple can't get rid of them... It's like having crabs... you cannot kill them... they're like babies... they have your own blood!!! :D Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
innerimager Posted September 4, 2009 Share #20 Posted September 4, 2009 I have 2 M8 bodies. The 2nd bought used, along with a 28 cron that lives on it. I pretty much use the other body with all my other lenses. That M8 + 28 cron is just a great combo. An effective 37mm f2 with the beautiful rendition of this lens will always produce great images. There's just no need to sell it...ever. Meanwhile I'll hold on to my original M8 for at least 6-12 months after the M9 is out, and see exactly what that camera offers. Significantly improved high iso would probably convince me, and if it has it, I'll get what I can for an M8 and trade. But I'm in no rush, especially as I get my full frame fix from my film bodies. I'm just thrilled Leica has beaten all expectations in the timing of delivering a full frame digital M and I wish Leica the greatest success, which will be wonderful for all of us, whether we partake of the M9 or not. best.....Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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